I can grow a juvie Oscar to 14" in a 30 gallon long, what does that prove? Growth is only 1 part of the BIG equation when it comes to keeping a fish in what should be considered optimum conditions.
180 Big enough or not ?
- Thread starter Dilema
- Start date
You must remember the fish's stress levels also and not just the water quality. If the fish is constantly defending its territory because the tank is to small it will be under constant stress which will effect its health and growth. JMO
You know what? Regardless of HOW someone is telling you that a 180 isn't big enough for a male dovii, they're taking the time to save anyone reading it (who actually listens) from making a stupid decision. You can keep any other Parachromis comfortable in tanks under 300 gallons, WHY KEEP A DOVII if you don't have the means to house it in a proper sized tank? What's the appeal?
A quote directly from cchhcc from his discussion with Rapps on the 180 gallon for a dovii thread a while back:
"Still, aquaculture facilities have shown that it is water quality and not necessarily tank size that is the key component to growth rates." -cchhcc (btw, why is he banned?)
It will be a lot more work to keep water conditions good in a 180. That is why I believe so many in 180's only obtain 17-18". But to say that a 180 is "cruel".....I don't believe that.
You just don't get it do you? It's more about the "psychological" healthy than the physical health. Other people are talking about one of the top predatory fish, which needs a large territory. You are talking about tilapia in aquaculture. Can you tell there's a difference here?
Do you not know what may happen if you keep a dozen tigers in a barn with clean air and good food?
About your earlier comments there there's no evidence either way, it's exactly the same as saying "I haven't seen any evidence, personally, that the earth is not flat".
I don't know which part of you being an engineering is relevant to the discussions here. I'm a professor, in Biology. I don't presume that I know anything. I listen to people WHO ACTUALLY HAVE EXPERIENCES.
Then you should know that there is NO evidence that a 180 is too small for the "psychological" or physical health of a Dovii. End of story.
He asked what I would need to see. I need to see statistics. There is NO proof that tank size is more important than water quality. And I stand by my opinion that a 180 with good water quality is acceptable and NOT cruel.
He asked what I would need to see. I need to see statistics. There is NO proof that tank size is more important than water quality. And I stand by my opinion that a 180 with good water quality is acceptable and NOT cruel.
Exactly. Earth is flat. Climates don't change. There's a tea cup on the surface of the sun.
Every single person who kept big male dovii in 180s or 220s in this thread already told you their dovii weren't happy and tried to bust out of the tank. Every single person. Nobody said anything about physical health. Rotten fins or hith or the like.
What more stat do you want to see??
Remember, we can't make the truth stand on our side. We can only choose to stand on the side of the truth.
i really think if you want a fish that with perfect water quality and upkeep you still need a 4' wide tank for the fish to be comfortable cause yes you can leep a dovii in a 180 and if you have everything perfect the fish is gonna grow to be a monster but only have a couple if not zero inches turn around comfortably which will make an uncomfortable fish. theres a reason mels male is as big as it is. he does it right with a combo of tank size and water quality. you really should never sacrifice either of those cause its about both.
This place is funny sometimes because you see all the water Nazi telling newbies a 12" fish will be completely miserable in a 72x18 and then you go look at their tanks... 20 peacock bass, rtc, arowana and 10 stingrays in something like 400 gal lol
Or those that keep a 12" fish in a 55 for years, then get a bigger tank and tell everyone you should never keep such fish in those conditions, even tho they did.
That said, I don't think an adult Dovii (which takes years to reach that size) should be kept in a 180. But with all that time you could surely save for an upgrade... so unless you plan on importing a 24" wild caught dovii and dropping it in that tank, I say go for it.. you might not even wanna keep the fish that long.
Or those that keep a 12" fish in a 55 for years, then get a bigger tank and tell everyone you should never keep such fish in those conditions, even tho they did.
That said, I don't think an adult Dovii (which takes years to reach that size) should be kept in a 180. But with all that time you could surely save for an upgrade... so unless you plan on importing a 24" wild caught dovii and dropping it in that tank, I say go for it.. you might not even wanna keep the fish that long.
That is completely subjective. Just like some people think their Oscars are saying "Hi" in the morning and asking for a cup of coffee. You can't look at a fish and know what it's thinking, or why exactly it's behaving a certain way. You will be wrong every single time. Large Dovii try to bust out of any tank because they are aggressive predatory fish and instinctively defend territories much bigger than any tank we can provide, including Mel's 500 gazillion tank. So if we really want a fish to be HAPPY and reach its full potential, we shouldn't keep them to begin with... unless you can fit a small lake in your living room.
