Am I crazy? Hybrids

[keepinfish]

so because you have more posts than me you know all there is to know? is that the logic?
If I cared what you think of me personally I would be making all sorts of ridiculous claims about this or that instead of trying to substitute anecdotal myths for good science with provided links to relevant info.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, why not talk about the facts instead of your 'kill the messenger' routine? Why not for instance google and link to any site that defines F1 etc differently than I have?

 

[ajb1971]

ha ha this thread is great, seems we all have kinda misunderstood the correct wording in science terms and hobby definition.

**** it I am still going to call mine F2

This why I started the thread, I'm interested in people's opinions and the discussion has gotten more & more interesting.

I respect Mike's (csx, H2O) dedication to rays and the info he has shared with the board, other hobbyist and scientist.
I understand Mike's prices of his rays because he HAS put in the time and effort, along with money invested in his facility and animals he braught in from over seas, paying for shipping cost, planning the breeding, caring for the animals and producing quality animals. I believe he is the only one in the states doing this commercially. He's not a back-yard breeder with dollar signs in his eyes.--In fact I'm interested in his Mantilla X Marble Motoros for sale.
I love discussions like this, along with several threads Miles has started to give us something to think about and discuss.

I see your point, but I am almost positive there are NO F2 pups born in the US to this day. I think Mikes oldest F1 female is a leo/pearl but will still be a while before any F2 show up. SO, to answer your question, when all we have available in the US is very few F1 pups, hybrid or pure, people pay what they think they are worth for them. No one is forcing pups on anyone and people will always pay what they FEEL they are worth to them PERSONALLY. A big pay day for MISTAKE? LOL Thats just a lil biased but I will leave that alone. I see no plausibility in drawing conclusions from comparing wolves and dogs to rays, but whatever. Seems this discussion is more about the prices other people pay for rays they like, and why would that bother anyone that isnt jealous? Would you cry if I paid Mike 10,000 for a F1 hybrid (mistake) that I really liked? WHo cares, get over it! Im leaving this one alone, to each his own..

I'm not crying or whining over anything, just was voicing an opinion. I mean no disrespect to anyone and would ask to please not be disrespected. I understand the concept of oppertunity coast (highest foregone alternative value) and the value of anything according to the individual
But, if you did pay $10,000 for a hybid I wouldn't cry (don't cry about much) or even post my opinon on that, but seeing you asked, I'd just think you were nuts just as I thought someone was nuts a while back for paying $50,000 for a platinium silver arowanna, though it was a beautiful fish. I just seriously hope the buyer didn't have any children, that'd be a major, selfish waste of serious money--if you're gonna piss away cash like that, atleast donate to your kid's school and invest in there education.
-----------Just an opinon!----------------

Now back to the discussion
Please keep the fighting and bashing out of this.
Thanks

 

[T1KARMANN]

this x-ray might be a new member but I'm sure i remember this anti pellet debate from someone else in the past

the reason i posted the aro cert and not the article 10 was because i don't want my article 10s posted all over the net

I'm going to send a email to the farm who produces that cert to ask them what F2 and beyond means as they are one of the biggest aro farms in the world

you must know something they don't and I'm sure they would be interested in this info you have to share

 

[bigspizz]

this x-ray might be a new member but I'm sure i remember this anti pellet debate from someone else in the past

the reason i posted the aro cert and not the article 10 was because i don't want my article 10s posted all over the net

I'm going to send a email to the farm who produces that cert to ask them what F2 and beyond means as they are one of the biggest aro farms in the world

you must know something they don't and I'm sure they would be interested in this info you have to share

something is up with these new ray gods.

 

[Miles]

This is a good example of why knowledgeable people are reluctant to post on forums, Asked to share our stuff we do so only to have your kind of petulant resistance to new knowledge.

Yes, fatty liver disease in rays due to diet was briefly shown in autopsy and discussed at the symposium and is perhaps a significant factor in captive rays life spans

Good thing everyone at the Synposium found out the 'true' Histrix was from Argentina, and the histrix we call 'true' from the Rio Negro is not Histrix at all..
Oh and heres the link to me being petulantly resistant to that info on this post..
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150216&highlight=true+histrix+argentina

Good thing the Synposium shed some light on the fatty liver disease, even though we had the conversation 4 months ago..
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134810&highlight=gorge+rays
Notice my post resisting intelligent information..

Check out this link - where I refused to believe that P. Menchacai is not a tiger ray but actually more synonymous with P. Falkneri..
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106217&page=2&highlight=menchacai+holotype
Luckily we had the Brazilian Scientists clear that up for you guys, I was all sorts of confused.
(yes this is sarcasm, the lowest of form of wittlessness)

Too bad we are just a big pool of ignorance.




David, why don't you get off your high horse and actually try to contribute instead of just poke fun when people arouse curious thoughts - If you are so stuck on this 'provide a link' crap, then why don't you do just that instead of lampoon people who have 'theories' or 'thoughts', god forbid.

If you aren't going to bestow your wisdom upon us and try to advance the hobby, why don't you get lost.

If your idea of advancing the hobby is being a bitter old hermit who knows more than anyone and only comes out of the woodwork to prove people wrong, then please, leave.

You're no better than RARE AFISHINADO when you do this.



I am boycotting the stingray forum until I feel comfortable sharing my thoughts without the zenith super experts ridiculing me for not knowing as much as they do. Why don't you try to be a bit more like Rayman, post credible info and help people out. If you look at nearly EVERY SINGLE ONE of my 'theory' threads(want links?), Rayman chimes in with kind words and valid info - and guess what, I absorb that information and do not hesitate to agree with him. I hold him in the highest regards and have learned a TON from listening to him - all I have learned from you is how to be an ass.


PS. Spell check is great but you might try a grammar and punctuation check.

 

[bigspizz]

does it matter who someone is more than the information they share?
It is a lot easier to research and check facts than it is to research members backgrounds. It is also a lot more informative and a lot more productive. You should try it sometime. Start with the biological definitions for F1 F2 etc. Do your own net searches and then debate, if you still want to

Only trolls....

 

[armac]

Hi Dw

 

[Miles]

Its all yours Miles, keep up the good work, you evidently know everything there is to know, forgetting about all the troubles you had with customers when you were selling rays

link?

I never claimed to be any sort of expert.. I never claimed to know everything.. where is this coming from? Just because I have the ability to articulate myself doesn't mean I am a self-proclaimed expert. I hate it when people refer to me as an 'expert' - I am far from it, and I know it.

As far as selling the rays.. my job was to take care of them.. how many died in my care? exactly.. and that was 3 years ago - I love how 'fish experts' fail to realize that people can have the ability to comprehend and learn things, grow and develop as hobbyists.. it's too bad your social skills don't do the same. Oh yeah, and I am still happily married despite your drowning comments a while back.. How did that work out for you? mmmm.hmmmmmm... no surprise.

now that Ray Jesus has arrived I can step aside now.. since the anointed one can replace me as the self-proclaimed 'Ray Messiah'.. wow.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107634&page=4&highlight=linnaeus+strikes
Heres one of your wonderful smartass comments.. remember? Oh, and heres me below, stating that I am, well.. not an expert...

and I quote my own self; December of 2007

haha.. I know I am not taxonomy expert. Perhaps if those more well versed in the topic would take the time to provide helpful insight, I wouldn't have to run around all willy-nilly ruffling feathers to get feedback!

I just hate the fact that their is no 'Planet Potamotrygon' like Planet catfish.. someone has to do it! and I am WILLING to be corrected each time I type a word!! These aren't my opinions, I am just publishing and recording them..

 

[armac]

Its all yours Miles, keep up the good work, you evidently know everything there is to know, forgetting about all the troubles you had with customers when you were selling rays

Bye DW

 

[bigspizz]

Its all yours Miles, keep up the good work, you evidently know everything there is to know, forgetting about all the troubles you had with customers when you were selling rays

GTFO.....Go watch a soap opera if you want some drama. Cryin like a girl right now man.