Ban on big Cats...

[miss__kp]

Without sounding prudish I believe that large / rare fish of any description should be limited to those with the knowledge, committment and financial ability to care for them.

I work for an LFS and I can't count the number of times I have been verbally abused as to why Seahorses can't be kept with Goldfish.

I completely agree LFS staff need to be highly knowledgeable and thus can educate the consumer however I also feel there needs to be a genuine interest in the wellbeing of the organism and not a mere novelty value of owning a fish tank.

I myself am by no means an expert, however I value MFK to glean answers from more experienced keepers, something I readily encourage others to do.

 

[fishdance]

Licensing is very problematic with its own set of issues but a simple effective way to reduce uneducated purchases/sales and irresponsible releases is to greatly increase the price of potential problem fish. If Pacu or RTC for examples were say $500 each it would make many aquarium shops think twice about ordering them in un-necessarily or selling them mislabelled, consumers would better research expensive fish purchases and be more prepared to house them adequately plus there would be a more receptive market for people trying to unload unwanted large fish if they are expensive. I say this from experience as these fish examples are usually more than $500 in Australia and we dont have any of the usual problems with a ready pool of consumers willing to pay those prices. Perhaps as a tax to fund other aquarium related issues and public education?

 

[flemming]

i would say yess especially the red-tail-catfish there are far far to big for an aquarium.
still you coud't buy them.
more fish shoud be banned:
channa micropelis
fire-eel
tire-track-eel
pangasius species
al that types of fish most be banned by a LFS.
a solution for this problem is a special fish-store where big and special fish kan be buyed.
some people just don't have te responsibillity to keep big fish.
i got a friend how buys big fish for his aquarium(50gallon)nowing there growing to big,but he don't cares.
a special fish store will change a lot of things in that case,and it's better for the fish.

 

[Mr Pleco]

Why the banning or licensing threads lately, there will never be a definitive answer to this issue of responsible fish keeping and what is responsible fish keeping.?. There enough laws, license requirements on the books now related to fish, fishing .......An educated consumer is the answer , I'd like to think that for the most part most fish keepers want to provide an environment where the fish can thrive...... unfortunately we live in a throw away society and $$$ determines your ultimate value.....

 

[chrisdef15]

Licensing is very problematic with its own set of issues but a simple effective way to reduce uneducated purchases/sales and irresponsible releases is to greatly increase the price of potential problem fish. If Pacu or RTC for examples were say $500 each it would make many aquarium shops think twice about ordering them in un-necessarily or selling them mislabelled, consumers would better research expensive fish purchases and be more prepared to house them adequately plus there would be a more receptive market for people trying to unload unwanted large fish if they are expensive. I say this from experience as these fish examples are usually more than $500 in Australia and we dont have any of the usual problems with a ready pool of consumers willing to pay those prices. Perhaps as a tax to fund other aquarium related issues and public education?

Thats not right either. Charging $500 for a fish worth $5 is so wrong. Your just encouraging illegal smuggling. How is licensing hard? Thats just a cop out and is exactly what our government is doing. It works 100% fine with birds, reptiles and mammals here so why would it not work with fish? Sorry i just have had quite a few arguments with the guys selling Bichirs, RTC, ect as they are basically a little club who keeps the prices high by all charging the same big mark ups. A month or so ago a bunch of Asian Aro's came in which where bought from Thailand or somewhere for around $5 the guys who smuggled them in sold them to there "dealers" around Aus who then sold them to the public for $350. Thats a bigger markup then alot of drugs and def isnt right.

 

[Danyal]

even bumping the price up to 20~30 dollars would do it, at the mislabled price of 8.49ea the 4 IR sharks i bought were there for over 2wks while at the usual price of 2.49ea they would have sold in a couple days.

 

[Nic]

i would sign in a heart beat... same goes for arapima and a few others .... these fish should require a permit to keep and proof of ability to house them.....

 

[fishdance]

Thats not right either. Charging $500 for a fish worth $5 is so wrong. Your just encouraging illegal smuggling. How is licensing hard? Thats just a cop out and is exactly what our government is doing. It works 100% fine with birds, reptiles and mammals here so why would it not work with fish? Sorry i just have had quite a few arguments with the guys selling Bichirs, RTC, ect as they are basically a little club who keeps the prices high by all charging the same big mark ups. A month or so ago a bunch of Asian Aro's came in which where bought from Thailand or somewhere for around $5 the guys who smuggled them in sold them to there "dealers" around Aus who then sold them to the public for $350. Thats a bigger markup then alot of drugs and def isnt right.

I think the OP is confusing the Australian situation with the global situation that is the reality for most forum readers here. I seriously doubt anyone would release/dump a $500+ fish of any species or size. Or if they wanted to get rid of a fish, it would be so much easier to find a home for an expensive fish than a cheap fish. On the other hand, imagine if convicts needed a permit. These fish would still get dumped by some people even if a permit was involved. Increasing prices for some species can be done simply and efficently as a surcharge for specific problem species at the importation facilities. Hopefully the surcharge will be used appropriately.

Unless fish can be individually traced back to owners (like a gun or microchip can), a permit isnt going to work IMO. However, if fish could be individually traced back then this is a tracking system rather than a permit system which isnt really necessary. Permit systems have their uses and place but as a deterrent for irresponsible pet ownership it leaves a lot to be desired. Like most permits, they do disadvantage the responsible.

Since the OP has mentioned the Aussie situation, I wonder whether his indignation is because of the markups or the smuggling? Who decides the price of a fish if not market forces? I am not talking about smuggling here but the value of a fish as I do breed a lot of the species mentioned. "having quite a few arguements with guys" indicates degree of open mindedness for discussion so perhaps I am wasting my time? Statements that there are no problems with birds, reptiles and mammals licensing simply reveals lack of of real experience from a pet store, wholesaler or serious hobbyist points of view. Keeping this thread on track by staying with fish related issues, I will submit an Australian Government proposal which does discuss some of the problems fish licensing/permits faces as well as the intention of Australian Government. Almost all the Monster fish species people keep here on MFK have already been targeted for elimination for the Aussie fish keepers.

http://www.affashop.gov.au/product.asp?prodid=13332

http://www.affashop.gov.au/PdfFiles/ornament_fish6.pdf

 

[Red tail catking]

I will have to say NEVER! These are my favorite of all the catfish species.
but I agree fish stores should have to get a permit before selling these lovable yet BEAST like fishes.If they never sold red tails again I would just.

 

[chrisdef15]

I think the OP is confusing the Australian situation with the global situation that is the reality for most forum readers here.

I fully understand the differences in law between Australia and the rest of the world. This isnt a US only or anything else site so i can comment about the situation here in Australia all i want.

On the other hand, imagine if convicts needed a permit. These fish would still get dumped by some people even if a permit was involved. Increasing prices for some species can be done simply and efficently as a surcharge for specific problem species at the importation facilities. Hopefully the surcharge will be used appropriately.

Further down you talk about permits disadvantaging the responsible (which makes no sense) yet you want the responsible to havta spend $500 (or high prices you said anyway) on a $5 fish??? My head is spinning at how stupid that sounds. As someone responsible who has spent up to $350 on individual fish i can say ide much rather havta get a permit then spend $500 on something i know cost $5.

Unless fish can be individually traced back to owners (like a gun or microchip can), a permit isnt going to work IMO. However, if fish could be individually traced back then this is a tracking system rather than a permit system which isnt really necessary. Permit systems have their uses and place but as a deterrent for irresponsible pet ownership it leaves a lot to be desired. Like most permits, they do disadvantage the responsible.

Plz explain how permits disadvantage the responsible more then spending $500 on a fish?? Microchips are a perfect idea and that is something i support fully for species like RTC TSN ect.

Since the OP has mentioned the Aussie situation, I wonder whether his indignation is because of the markups or the smuggling? Who decides the price of a fish if not market forces? I am not talking about smuggling here but the value of a fish as I do breed a lot of the species mentioned. "having quite a few arguements with guys" indicates degree of open mindedness for discussion so perhaps I am wasting my time?

Your wasting your time in that some of what your saying makes no sense but yes im happy to listen to whatever you have to say. Im against both the markups and the smuggling but because we have no other way of getting them here and i think the rules are ridiculous ille except the smugglers in the hope that like you said as the prices are so high most of what they smuggle in will be treasured and never released. And yes to a certain point the market decides prices. So you think its "ok" for say fuel as an example to be made $10 a litre just because someone can?? Im sure the market would pay it will we couldnt afford it anymore as we have no choice.
And what species mentioned do you breed?? Sounds abit dodgy to me since where talking big cats here. Bichirs ille believe if you wanna show some pics.

Statements that there are no problems with birds, reptiles and mammals licensing simply reveals lack of of real experience from a pet store, wholesaler or serious hobbyist points of view.

I work in a pet store in NSW (so dont have reptile experience ille admit) and i deal with and talk to wholesalers alot and other then lorikeets in WA which dont belong havent heard of any serious problems with birds or reptiles. Since the gov is bringing in new laws so we can sell reptiles finally in NSW now im sure they agree there isnt as many problems as your making out. Unless you have some info?