Cacellian worm Breeding

[WyldFya]

Well then tommorrow i will try to get a written staetment from the fws that they are not illegal, but if i cant i cant. I also am gonna keep any receits when purchasing a nimal. Thanks guys.

Can you guys clarify something else for me so i dont have to make a new forum. I mentioned above about selling the offspring and needing a license. So every hobiest here has a license to sell there animals? And what license do i need?

Technically you do need a license... that being said, most people do not have them. I would inquire with the US F&W.

 

[ScatMan]

Again, apples to bananas. The only leg you are trying to stand on, is that they are illegal, BECAUSE you assume the original stock was illegally acquired. However, a snakehead could have been legally acquired pre ban, and bred, the offspring would be illegal to own as they are invasive. T. natans has no such law banning the right to own off spring.

no, you're the only one talking about fruit, and still bringing up snakeheads.

yes, i assume the original stock was illegal, because this is what i've heard from people that actually inquired about it, there are no breeding projects or records going back to at least 1968 and there have been government seizures of the animal.

YOU ASSUME that the original stock was legal with, so far, NO evidence or reason to support your claim. other than "they were present in the US at the time the law was put into effect". so the question remains; when and where were they legal to collect?

"T. natans has no such law banning the right to own off spring." this is assuming the parent stock was legally collected and imported, but the proof is lacking. if the parent stock is illegal, so are the offspring.

 

[knifegill]

You're looking at the banded, gray, gooey goodness of the amphibian known as caecilians. These creatures have made headlines thanks to some ground-breaking footage taken by the folks over at BBC. Film crews worked with this mother and her brood for some time, noticing that the little ones were inexplicably growing, without any obvious source of food.

They soon found out why.

They have specialized teeth that allow them to eat their mother's flesh. You must watch the video to fully grasp the situation. It turns out that mom's flesh is nice and fatty, and she is able to regenerate it every three days, so as to keep the young ones satisfied. THAT, my friends, is parental devotion.

And once again, I am thankful that I belong to the mammalian order, in which the offspring are fed milk, not mommy's flesh. That would result in some serious post-partum depression.

Thanks for the article, Carol and Chris.

From http://uglyoverload.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html

 

[ScatMan]

In order to get in any trouble

An officer needs to be in your house for another reason and recognize the aquarium and notice that one of the fish in the tank is illegal.

Then the officer needs to find out where you got it.

Then the officer needs to contact the LFS and ask them where they got it.

Then the wholesaler needs to be asked what country their wholesaler is located in.

Then if the country is one where you cannot export it you will have to give up the fish.

I honestly think that this kind of effort to confiscate a fish is very very rare.

what??? where did you come up with this?

if you are in possession of an animal deemed illegal, it is up to you to prove your innocence. it's like me being stopped with a bag of pills, i would have to show a prescription to prove that they are legally in my possession.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that:
(see link below)
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure#United_States

(b) Powers
Any person authorized under subsection (a) of this section to enforce this chapter may carry firearms; may, when enforcing this chapter, make an arrest without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General, for any offense under the laws of the United States committed in the person’s presence, or for the commission of any felony under the laws of the United States, if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; may search and seize, with or without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General; [1] Provided, That an arrest for a felony violation of this chapter that is not committed in the presence or view of any such person and that involves only the transportation, acquisition, receipt, purchase, or sale of fish or wildlife or plants taken or possessed in violation of any law or regulation of any State shall require a warrant; may make an arrest without a warrant for a misdemeanor violation of this chapter if he has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested is committing a violation in his presence or view; and may execute and serve any subpena, arrest warrant, search warrant issued in accordance with rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, or other warrant of civil or criminal process issued by any officer or court of competent jurisdiction for enforcement of this chapter. Any person so authorized, in coordination with the Secretary of the Treasury, may detain for inspection and inspect any vessel, vehicle, aircraft, or other conveyance or any package, crate, or other container, including its contents, upon the arrival of such conveyance or container in the United States or the customs waters of the United States from any point outside the United States or such customs waters, or, if such conveyance or container is being used for exportation purposes, prior to departure from the United States or the customs waters of the United States. Such person may also inspect and demand the production of any documents and permits required by the country of natal origin, birth, or reexport of the fish or wildlife. Any fish, wildlife, plant, property, or item seized shall be held by any person authorized by the Secretary pending disposition of civil or criminal proceedings, or the institution of an action in rem for forfeiture of such fish, wildlife, plants, property, or item pursuant to section 3374 of this title; except that the Secretary may, in lieu of holding such fish, wildlife, plant, property, or item, permit the owner or consignee to post a bond or other surety satisfactory to the Secretary.

-http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode16/usc_sec_16_00003375----000-.html

 

[WyldFya]

no, you're the only one talking about fruit, and still bringing up snakeheads.

yes, i assume the original stock was illegal, because this is what i've heard from people that actually inquired about it, there are no breeding projects or records going back to at least 1968 and there have been government seizures of the animal.

YOU ASSUME that the original stock was legal with, so far, NO evidence or reason to support your claim. other than "they were present in the US at the time the law was put into effect". so the question remains; when and where were they legal to collect?

"T. natans has no such law banning the right to own off spring." this is assuming the parent stock was legally collected and imported, but the proof is lacking. if the parent stock is illegal, so are the offspring.

Calm down. People can see right off the bat who knows what they are talking about. USFW has told me that T. natans was legally imported. So yes I do have solid proof. I know for a fact that those sold in pet shops are legal.

 

[WyldFya]

what??? where did you come up with this?

if you are in possession of an animal deemed illegal, it is up to you to prove your innocence. it's like me being stopped with a bag of pills, i would have to show a prescription to prove that they are legally in my possession.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that:
(see link below)
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure#United_States

(b) Powers
Any person authorized under subsection (a) of this section to enforce this chapter may carry firearms; may, when enforcing this chapter, make an arrest without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General, for any offense under the laws of the United States committed in the person’s presence, or for the commission of any felony under the laws of the United States, if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing a felony; may search and seize, with or without a warrant, in accordance with any guidelines which may be issued by the Attorney General; [1] Provided, That an arrest for a felony violation of this chapter that is not committed in the presence or view of any such person and that involves only the transportation, acquisition, receipt, purchase, or sale of fish or wildlife or plants taken or possessed in violation of any law or regulation of any State shall require a warrant; may make an arrest without a warrant for a misdemeanor violation of this chapter if he has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested is committing a violation in his presence or view; and may execute and serve any subpena, arrest warrant, search warrant issued in accordance with rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, or other warrant of civil or criminal process issued by any officer or court of competent jurisdiction for enforcement of this chapter. Any person so authorized, in coordination with the Secretary of the Treasury, may detain for inspection and inspect any vessel, vehicle, aircraft, or other conveyance or any package, crate, or other container, including its contents, upon the arrival of such conveyance or container in the United States or the customs waters of the United States from any point outside the United States or such customs waters, or, if such conveyance or container is being used for exportation purposes, prior to departure from the United States or the customs waters of the United States. Such person may also inspect and demand the production of any documents and permits required by the country of natal origin, birth, or reexport of the fish or wildlife. Any fish, wildlife, plant, property, or item seized shall be held by any person authorized by the Secretary pending disposition of civil or criminal proceedings, or the institution of an action in rem for forfeiture of such fish, wildlife, plants, property, or item pursuant to section 3374 of this title; except that the Secretary may, in lieu of holding such fish, wildlife, plant, property, or item, permit the owner or consignee to post a bond or other surety satisfactory to the Secretary.

-http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode16/usc_sec_16_00003375----000-.html

Purchasing an animal from a pet store is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor.

I will say it again, calm down. Trust me on this issue, as I have owned, and bred this species. I looked into this a long time ago.

 

[ScatMan]

Calm down. People can see right off the bat who knows what they are talking about. USFW has told me that T. natans was legally imported. So yes I do have solid proof. I know for a fact that those sold in pet shops are legal.

i'm cool don't worry. you havn't demonstrated that you know what you're talking about yet. usfw has told others that t. natans was never legally imported as well. hence my advice to etunes to get something in writing, because that makes it official. words over the phone mean nothing in court unless you have a recording of it and the clerks have shown their lack of knowledge on this and many other subjects before.

i'm 99.999999% certain that nothing would ever come of it, but it's always best to cover your bases. wouldn't you agree?

Purchasing an animal from a pet store is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor.

please tell me you can see how unclear this statement is. it's this type of hazy talk that confuses people. if you have a point to make, state it clearly and don't rely on others to assume the same things you assume.

anyway, you should have probably kept reading-
"may make an arrest without a warrant for a misdemeanor violation of this chapter if he has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested is committing a violation in his presence or view"

I will say it again, calm down. Trust me on this issue, as I have owned, and bred this species. I looked into this a long time ago.

no thank you. i'll take legal documents over your (or pretty much anybodies) word of mouth any day. breeding amphibians doesn't make you a lawyer and neither does talking to a bureaucrat.

 

[WyldFya]

no thank you. i'll take legal documents over your (or pretty much anybodies) word of mouth any day. breeding amphibians doesn't make you a lawyer and neither does talking to a bureaucrat.

When breeding this species, I talked to USFWS personally. I got what I needed from them. You have told us what others have told you, but have not even taken the time to call USFWS yourself. No matter what anyone tells you, you aren't going to change your mind, so no point arguing with a wall. Have a great day.

 

[Etunes]

Purchasing an animal from a pet store is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor.

I will say it again, calm down. Trust me on this issue, as I have owned, and bred this species. I looked into this a long time ago.

So when you breed the species what did you do. Just throw a couple in the tank and bam, you had babies? No real specifics or what?

And also do i just call them up and ask for something in writing?

 

[WyldFya]

Back to the purpose of the thread.

Yes breeding is pretty simple. Provide lots of meaty foods, I used a lot of blackworms, beefheart, and plankton. Keep water temps around 80-81dF. I kept one male to two females, and had great success. These are about as hard to breed as convict cichlids.