Getting busted for illegal fish ??
- Thread starter koop171
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or do a autopsy on the oscar 
This C.I.T.E.S. act thing is just some US thought up well
wishing gone terribly wrong. The USA is basically the only
country on earth that enforces these more than sometimes
crazy rules and regulations. Most other countries
refuse to enforce C.I.T.E.S. regulations, because they conflict
with there own customs and exisiting laws. Though there
are many countries that have signed on to C.I.T.E.S., most
if not all only apply these Regulations/Laws to people outside
their own boarders, if at all.
As a general rule the only country that mainly prosecutes anyone
for C.I.T.E.S. violations is the US. The US has even gone after
people in other countries, trying them in their courts and
getting convictions in there absence but not being able to imprison
them because there home land country refuses to even
arrest them, let alone turn them over to the US.
Since the activity they where engaged in isn't illegal in these
other countries only in the US and only enforced by the US.
It's a well known that there's what is customarily thought of
a Animal Dealers in various countries around the world that have a
price on there head so to speak, placed there by USFW. But there
homeland countries refuses to turn them over to USFW, or
allow USFW to arrest them. The only people USFW is able to tell what
they can and cannot have are the "FREE" People of the USA. Where people
are Free to choose those that they'd like to have tell them
what they can and cannot do.
What I find amazing in this area is that most of these Captive
Breeding Farms are Registered with CITES, they have CITES permits.
They all pay high fees/Taxes for these permits/listings, which require
them to open there doors whenever CITES Personnel show up. They
utilize micro-chip implants Techology and Certification/Validation paper work
that has been approved by the morons that enforce CITES. But with all
this these producers/breeders cannot sell there products to the US.
WHY? Anyone with half a brain will tell you that a CB strain Aro, in the
long run is a far better investment than trying to acquire a WC one
from a lake or body of water that is gaurded by gun toting gaurds. And
has a far less chance of surviving Black Market transportation.
As I see it there are two sulotions to this problem, either someone needs
to take a true life count of specimens in the wild and show USFW/CITES that
this specimen no longer should be listed as Appendex 1. Such as the American Alligator in Florida, was removed after all but a war. Or the entire wild remaining population of Aro's (Harsh Statement) needs to be eradicated,
before USFW will allow for there trade. So that they can be sure that the specimens being traded didn't come from the wild.
wishing gone terribly wrong. The USA is basically the only
country on earth that enforces these more than sometimes
crazy rules and regulations. Most other countries
refuse to enforce C.I.T.E.S. regulations, because they conflict
with there own customs and exisiting laws. Though there
are many countries that have signed on to C.I.T.E.S., most
if not all only apply these Regulations/Laws to people outside
their own boarders, if at all.
As a general rule the only country that mainly prosecutes anyone
for C.I.T.E.S. violations is the US. The US has even gone after
people in other countries, trying them in their courts and
getting convictions in there absence but not being able to imprison
them because there home land country refuses to even
arrest them, let alone turn them over to the US.
Since the activity they where engaged in isn't illegal in these
other countries only in the US and only enforced by the US.
It's a well known that there's what is customarily thought of
a Animal Dealers in various countries around the world that have a
price on there head so to speak, placed there by USFW. But there
homeland countries refuses to turn them over to USFW, or
allow USFW to arrest them. The only people USFW is able to tell what
they can and cannot have are the "FREE" People of the USA. Where people
are Free to choose those that they'd like to have tell them
what they can and cannot do.
What I find amazing in this area is that most of these Captive
Breeding Farms are Registered with CITES, they have CITES permits.
They all pay high fees/Taxes for these permits/listings, which require
them to open there doors whenever CITES Personnel show up. They
utilize micro-chip implants Techology and Certification/Validation paper work
that has been approved by the morons that enforce CITES. But with all
this these producers/breeders cannot sell there products to the US.
WHY? Anyone with half a brain will tell you that a CB strain Aro, in the
long run is a far better investment than trying to acquire a WC one
from a lake or body of water that is gaurded by gun toting gaurds. And
has a far less chance of surviving Black Market transportation.
As I see it there are two sulotions to this problem, either someone needs
to take a true life count of specimens in the wild and show USFW/CITES that
this specimen no longer should be listed as Appendex 1. Such as the American Alligator in Florida, was removed after all but a war. Or the entire wild remaining population of Aro's (Harsh Statement) needs to be eradicated,
before USFW will allow for there trade. So that they can be sure that the specimens being traded didn't come from the wild.
Keeping them in the US has nothing to do with being CB and chippped. It has to do with them being endangered in the wild. So until breeders start kicking back animals, that won't change. But that means ending these pet store color variations and specific trait breeding. That isn't doing anything good for the species as a whole.
As for the question about dealing with bred animals that are at zoos/aquarium in the US already.... I don't think anyone has had them in breeding friendly situations. However, they would be responsible for the offspring as well.
As for the question about dealing with bred animals that are at zoos/aquarium in the US already.... I don't think anyone has had them in breeding friendly situations. However, they would be responsible for the offspring as well.
johnptc;1631805; said:
I remember reading an article posted here about a guy trying to transport over a dozen rtg into the US from canada. There was a picture of them alive in a bag, and there was also a picture of all the rtg dead. I assumed that they were killed. What else would they have done with them?
niblit;1630500; said:
Local cops have no jurisdiction when it comes to illegal fish, they were just there killing time.
Onion01;1638436; said:I remember reading an article posted here about a guy trying to transport over a dozen rtg into the US from canada. There was a picture of them alive in a bag, and there was also a picture of all the rtg dead. I assumed that they were killed. What else would they have done with them?
They can't be killed, they are used as evidence in the court case against the smuggler.
The penalty for possession of illegal fish depends on the regulatory framework under which that particular species is regulated.
For example, FW stingrays and piranha are regulated in California under the California Fish and Game Code as species that are potentially detrimental to humans or local aquatic species. The California Department of Fish and Game enforces these statutes and regulations. Because these species are regulated due to a perceived danger to humans and the environment, they are typically killed by CDFG wardens.
On the other hand, the Asian arowana is federally regulated under both CITES Appendix I and, more importantly, under the Endangered Species Act. A CITES certificate would get you past the Lacey Act, as it shows compliance with international laws, but a CITES certificate does not get you past the Endangered Species Act. Thus, it is the Endangered Species Act listing that is the legal impediment to the importation, possession, sales, etc., of Asian arowanas. The ESA is enforced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Because Asian arowanas are regulated as an endangered species, they are not killed by USFWS enforcement officers. Rather, the care of confiscated Asian arowanas in the U.S. is typically entrusted to public aquaria, educational institutions, or even trusted private citizens with USFWS authorization.
Yet another example are those species that are federally listed as injurious under the Lacey Act. These include snakeheads and walking catfish, to list two examples. The Lacey Act injurious wildlife provisions are also enforced by the USFWS, but, unlike ESA-protected species, these species are typically destroyed when captured.
Thus, it all depends on the regulatory framework under which a particular species is listed/regulated.
For example, FW stingrays and piranha are regulated in California under the California Fish and Game Code as species that are potentially detrimental to humans or local aquatic species. The California Department of Fish and Game enforces these statutes and regulations. Because these species are regulated due to a perceived danger to humans and the environment, they are typically killed by CDFG wardens.
On the other hand, the Asian arowana is federally regulated under both CITES Appendix I and, more importantly, under the Endangered Species Act. A CITES certificate would get you past the Lacey Act, as it shows compliance with international laws, but a CITES certificate does not get you past the Endangered Species Act. Thus, it is the Endangered Species Act listing that is the legal impediment to the importation, possession, sales, etc., of Asian arowanas. The ESA is enforced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Because Asian arowanas are regulated as an endangered species, they are not killed by USFWS enforcement officers. Rather, the care of confiscated Asian arowanas in the U.S. is typically entrusted to public aquaria, educational institutions, or even trusted private citizens with USFWS authorization.
Yet another example are those species that are federally listed as injurious under the Lacey Act. These include snakeheads and walking catfish, to list two examples. The Lacey Act injurious wildlife provisions are also enforced by the USFWS, but, unlike ESA-protected species, these species are typically destroyed when captured.
Thus, it all depends on the regulatory framework under which a particular species is listed/regulated.
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