Guess the species! - Part 2

[magpie]

Sooooo it's not Polli then, since Vancouver and I gave our physical descriptor reasons.

OK, I'm sitting back for someone else to figure out. I gave it my good go.

 

[clm08k]

Buettokoferi ?
senegal round head shape
gold/green rectangular spots
upper jaw: extends out further than the lower.
gold/yellow belly

 

[Polyaddict86]

Its a palmas palmas, it have more rounder snout and kinda points down alittle, head color have more bright green/yellow, which is polli have more pointier snout and flatter head, head color of a polli is much darker cause most of its dotted pattern starts from the body.
A buettikoferi have a similar head shape as a palmas but the bottom color are more gold/yellow
And palmas have almost cream color.

 

[jaws7777]

Palmas palmas cuz it looks like a palmas palmas

 

[Josh's Fish]

Wild caught Polypterus polli

 

[magpie]

WOOOOOOOT!

OK, now can you please help me with the head shape? What about this specifically separates the Senegalus/Weeksii groups? In the head shot that you posted, for example. I am not sure how to look at it specifically and say it's X group. I need help on what exactly I'm looking at.

 

[Josh's Fish]

WOOOOOOOT!

OK, now can you please help me with the head shape? What about this specifically separates the Senegalus/Weeksii groups? In the head shot that you posted, for example. I am not sure how to look at it specifically and say it's X group. I need help on what exactly I'm looking at.

The distance between the barbules is often shorter than that of the Weeksii group as their head is narrower (this doesn't apply with every species belonging to these groups though, but there will be other distinctive factors which will shout out to you anyway)
The main indicator is the head width though. Weeksii's are much broader. As you said you couldn't notice width well on the picture, you can look towards the mouth width and apply it there.

Narrowing it down further, I'd also suggest to look towards their lower jaw markings, or lack of. Saying no more

 

[Polyaddict86]

Josh's Fish can you explain to us what are the difference between the head shape, jaw shape between a polli, palmas,retro and buettikoferi since they most of them look the same. I knowwe can tell by pattern if we look at the entire fish but like in your photo, what should be looking from to tell which is which?

 

[magpie]

I can understand recognizing how broad a head is when comparing between individuals, but for a single photo I still am finding it challenging in how I could recognize how broad a head is compared to another poly.

I understand and appreciate your clues on how we can tell and having us look for subtleties, but with a single side head shot I'm finding it hard to apply this. It would be easier with a different angle, like from the top down. Patterns above and below the jaw, for sure.

Like Polyaddict says - polli / palmas / buettikoferi vs, retro / moke. With this photo, how would you choose Senegalus vs. Weeksii group?

I'm not trying to be a pain, I'm truly trying to learn.

 

[Josh's Fish]

Josh's Fish can you explain to us what are the difference between the head shape, jaw shape between a polli, palmas,retro and buettikoferi since they most of them look the same. I knowwe can tell by pattern if we look at the entire fish but like in your photo, what should be looking from to tell which is which?

magpie

There is little to no difference in head and jaw shape between Senegalus senegalus, Polli, Palmas palmas and Palmas buettikoferi as they're all members of the Senegalus group which share similar headhsapes (with the exceptions of Delhezi (not mass bred) which have flatter heads part of being a transitional upper to lower jaw species, and Senegalus meridionales which also has a flat head)

Retropinnis on the other hand do have very different headshapes to the others, being a member of the Weeksii group, they also have wider heads and mouths.
Another nuance which you can sometimes apply to the Weeksii group (with the exception of Teugelsi and Mokelembembe) have a more squared facial structure if you understand. The ridge from the eye to the barbules or mouth is quite angled, same as the neck and cheeks. (although the more captive bred it is, the rounder it will be)
The Senegalus group, as you can see in this photo of the Polli has a very round cranial structure.
You see where it begins to flatten on the forehead, well use the gap between the barbule and eye to identify. On the Senegalus group, that gap transitions smoothly from the round cheek to the slightly flatter head. Often on the Weeksii group, that gap doesn't transition as smoothly, so you see a harsher angular shape there. Hopefully that makes sense.

Besides broadness of head, there is no definitive way to separate the Weeksii group and Senegalus group on headshape alone. There are tiny little factors you will pick up on though such as the ones stated above, but the longer you keep them, the more you will notice.

My process if applicable is:
Check jaw protrusion,
If it's upper, check head width,
If head width isn't obvious, check for those secondary nuances in facial structure,
Then I know what group it is and study body markings, facial and cheek features.
If the markings aren't always obvious, count the finlets

If after this, you still struggle to see it's part of the Senegalus group, it might just be a case of keeping the groups longer