HAS THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA LOST IT'S MIND

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

also fishing will not work as a means for removing the "threat" it is not the adults or sub-adults that are the concern, it is the young pike that it has been theorized can survive the trip through the fish screens in the reservoir and establish themselves down stream.

I put threat in quotations and say theorize because there is no hard evidence to suggest that young pike can or have survived the fish screens or that if they were to establish themselves in the delta and its tributaries that they would be any more of a threat than the already established introduced piscivorous species, such as the striped bass

 

[Edwin]

it really sucks

 

[Mikeberg]

For the small fish that might get through the screens; could they use an electrical barrior like Chicago is trying to stop Bighead & Silver Carp?

I liked the bounty idea for any bigger fish, Washington gets more then 65,000 Northern Pike Minnows each year with their bounty. The top three fishermen alone do better then that.

These ideas are not perfect but will work as well as what the State has done so far!

The State would also save a lot of money.

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

For the small fish that might get through the screens; could they use an electrical barrior like Chicago is trying to stop Bighead & Silver Carp?

I liked the bounty idea for any bigger fish, Washington gets more then 65,000 Northern Pike Minnows each year with their bounty. The top three fishermen alone do better then that.

These ideas are not perfect but will work as well as what the State has done so far!

The State would also save a lot of money.

One more thing to add for those who dont know, this was not a current event at the time the thread was started. CA fish and game began draining the lake in october of 2006 and the rotenone treatment took place in september of 2007. 24 tons of fish carcasses have been removed from the site with the remainder to be left to decompose at the site. Bullheads and pumpkinseeds and some bass have been caught since the poisioning took place, these fish require a higher dose of the poison to be killed. Restocking of the reservoir will take place in the upcoming spring with several hundred thousand trout.

For a more current disturbing fish news in CA see:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1300903#post1300903

 

[fugupuff]

Thanks for the write up and clarification, it was a good read. It's apparent that you have a good understanding of the problem at hand and see the larger picture, please do keep us updated and shed more insight as you see needed here.

I have a question for you, with the Davis delta, which species of concern are they worried about that might affected by the pike population? Squafish, are there any golden trouts?

thanks!

Just a few comments, I don't care to argue with the ignorant so I hope to clear up a few things

All bass and bluegill are introduced species in california, as well as the trout in davis lake

the northern pike, muskellunge, one species of pickerel and the large mouth bass were introduced in 1891 by........ The US Fish and Game Commission. Early introductions failed to produce established populations. The difference between these sanctioned introductions and the unsactioned introduction at Davis lake is the location.

Davis lake is a reservoir in the high sierra-nevada mountain range and is a tributary to the san joaquin delta. The concern over the pike is that it has access to the ecosytem of the delta and the fear is (unsubstantiated fear in my opinion) that the pike are a threat to species of concern in the delta. This is also the reason why I dont think it is appropriate to compare floridas waterways to californias in this instance, the waterways in florida are at the end of the freshwater system, davis lake is at the beginning.

On a side note california is second only to florida in regards to introduced fish species with 50 distinct and established species. Third on the list is Minnesota, the land of 10,000 lakes with a total of 14 distinct and established introduced species, 4 of which are salmon and trout

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Thanks for the write up and clarification, it was a good read. It's apparent that you have a good understanding of the problem at hand and see the larger picture, please do keep us updated and shed more insight as you see needed here.

I have a question for you, with the Davis delta, which species of concern are they worried about that might affected by the pike population? Squafish, are there any golden trouts?

thanks!

I have some colleagues who work as environmental engineers for Ca Department of Water Resources, and I had previously discussed this issue with Enviro professors at Sac State; however a ton of reliable information on the topic can be found through CA DFG website.

Davis Lake is a reservoir in Plumas county and is a tributary body of water to the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta. I dont know the complete list of endangered, threatened or species of concern in the Delta but heres a few:

Sacramento Perch
Sacramento Splittail
Hardhead Minnow Eulachon
Green Sturgeon

The real problem in CA is not the pike, its that a hundred years ago we as a society did not have an understanding of how the things we do effect our environment. Its the destruction of natural habitats and introduction of non-native species that is the problem. The same can be said about nearly all areas of this country.

CA fish and game decided a hundred years ago that the anadromous game fish that were native to CA were not enough for CA anglers and proceeded to stock freshwater piscivores (bass, sunfish, catfish, etc) and followed that by introducing baitfish to grow these gamefish on. I dont think I need to continue on with all the things wrong with that......

The problem with the pike is the bad press they received in CA. Its similar to what happened to sharks after the movie Jaws. The director of the CA DFG contributed to a news article in may of 1997 and went on record calling the pike "the mountain lion of the river" and speculated that the pike could decimate native fish species in the delta.

What was left out of the article was that all CA gamefish could be described in a simialr way, (with 2 exceptions, kokanne salmon and sturgeon). All CA gamefish are voracious predators, and yet they receive no bad press....

I do think that the state did the right thing by trying to rid themselves of the pike before they "tested" the theories about the negative consequences. I think it is better that they try and preserve what we have than to just have the attitude that "one more time wont hurt" However, In my opinion the CA natives would survive the pike just as they have Striped and Largemouth bass, I guess we will see in 10 years when the pike show up in Davis Lake again......

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

I have a question for you, with the Davis delta, which species of concern are they worried about that might affected by the pike population? Squafish, are there any golden trouts?

thanks!

If the golden trout even exists anymore......

The golden trout is a rainbow trout, specifically its a sub-species of reband trout. They were originally only found in the upper kern river, but were introduced in 1876 to Cottonwood Creek.

Since 1904 however widespread introductions of Brook Trout and Brown trout into waterways that were exclusively inhabited by the golden trout has lead to the disappearance of the golden trout from numerous sites due to intraspecific competition. There are state run hatchery programs that are now the last measure to insure against the disappearance of the golden trout, however they do not accurately represent the original gene pool


SOURCE: Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes of California, Samual McGinnis 2006

 

[Aquaman_95]

Killing off the whole lake to protect one exotic species from another. Idiots.

Well said!

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Well said!

They KILLED (already happened) the whole lake to prevent further degradation of the delta ecosystem; the watershed (The Sacramento Province) that this lake is at the beginning off encompasses roughly half of California. And there are a number of species that were not killed if you would care to know.

For as many of you as there are on this site that frown on releasing aquarium kept fish into the wild i am suprised by how many of you are against the eradication of the northern pike in Davis Lake

 

[Tequila]

For as many of you as there are on this site that frown on releasing aquarium kept fish into the wild i am suprised by how many of you are against the eradication of the northern pike in Davis Lake

I for one don't have as strong feelings about the release of aquarium kept fish into the wild, well most of the time that is. Because I don't think that 1 - 6 fish will really matter in most cases. Plus in most exotic fish that are released won't survive do to water bodies freezing during winter, etc,. I do however think what Fish and Game does for the purpose of boosting Fishing in a State, is in most cases stupid to say the least. ie: Florida Fish and Game way back in the '70s, I think it was released hundreds of thousands of Oscars, because they thought that they would boost the fishing industry there.

Aside from spending an insane amount of money on this project, and having this poisining run throughout Davis Lake/Reservoir and into the high Sierra-Nevada mountain range and is a tributary to the San Joaquin Delta. That they could find a better way to deal with the self made problem, and used the money for other things. Like education, or education of Fish & Game so that they stop the business of introductions of non-native species for the purpose of the fishing industry. There doing all this poisining and killing of one species of non-native fish so they can introduce another non-native Trout, this is all starting to make perfect sense to me now.