Help with a future set up - Currently being built

[Sicklidsbruh]

Greetings peoples of MFK!, finally took the plunge and joined the forum after doing much of my searching lead me to this great plethora of information, To start off I'm a proud keeper of many cichlids and have been for the last 2 years, its only in the last 8 months I decided to go down the monster fish route and got myself an Oscar, well that was pretty short lived because only a few months after I got my first beautiful Lutino Oscar, the Mrs spotted an absolutely stunning black and white striped tiger Oscar, she couldn't leave the store without it.

Now I have 2 Oscars in a 55G - 210L tank, ( I KNOW I KNOW ), they're both beautiful beasts and what originally turned into a hunt for a 75-90G tank to house my SOLO beautiful Lutino aptly named Kirby it has now morphed into needing a much larger tank, Fast forward to me just saying WHATEVER and giving into buying a custom built lifetime guaranteed 120G - 454L tank 48"x24"x24" - 4ft-2ft-2ft, due to limitations in space and overall transport I couldn't go any bigger than 4ft unfortunately, I know Oscars do prefer the extra 2ft of space a full 125-180g 6ft can provide its just not feasible where I am situated.

My question for the day is in about a months time the tank will be finished, 120G-454L*, an FX6 canister is already in transit with 2 x 300w cichlid resistant heaters, I plan to cover the entire tank with PFS like I have in my other tanks and keep to a tight 2 x 50% WC weekly schedule, the final stocking I am hoping for this tank is
1 x Tiger Oscar, 1 x Lutino Oscar, 1 x Sailfin Pleco,
(^ I Already Own these, the Oscars inhabit one 55G tank at the moment, and the Sailfin is situated in my other 55G tank with my Africans)
5-6 x Silver Dollars & maybe 1 x Goldspot Pleco if space allows.

My Lutino Kirby is around 7-8", My Tiger Link is around 4-5.5", My Sailfin Zelda is around 8"-9"

Am I dreaming with this stocking list? not many people have 120's and Oscars, its always a 5 - 6ft tank and its hard to relate

I appreciate any help, Please keep any "Oscars shouldn't be in a 55g" to a minimum, I know full well what I have done, and it was never my intention to keep them for life in the 55, it was purely Grow out, thankyou

 

[duanes]

The problem with small tanks, (and I consider a 120 quite small for 2 oscars, and a Pleco) is not only floor space, but that nitrates build up so quickly without frequent, large water changes.
And if nitrates reach over 10ppm, oscars (and other large long lived cichlids) tend to be prone to chronic HITH disease over time.
So in order to keep nitrates at a non chronic toxicity level, multiple weekly water changes may be needed.
And the smaller the tank, the more important those changes are.
On my 300 gal system, with medium sized cichlids, I try to do 30 to 40% water changes every other day, to reach my nitrate goal of under 5ppm.

 

[Sicklidsbruh]

AHhhh 120 small O.O wowwee and 10ppm??? whoops I've been keeping to the 40ppm time to change rule mostly, maybe the 50% every other day schedule might have to come back into play to keep those nitrates down, I don't check water as often as I should but usually every 2 weeks ill do a full test and parameters are often
0 Ammo
0 Nitri
20-40ish Nitra
This is following a 2 x 50% WC schedule and tests were done before what would be counted the 4th WC if counting 4 times over 2 weeks.
but I honestly had no idea I had to keep nitrates down that much, the Oscars have been great every day since arrival, not a single issue other than the odd scratch from being randomly spooked by the dog and glancing the driftwood inside, and that happens maybe once every week or so and regrowth on the area is always extremely fast and without issue,

I run an Eheim 2217 canister full of seachem matrix, dense sponge pad and some purigen pouches that get swapped out on exhaustion, with a decent 2100gph double wavemaker, the tank is lined with extremely over-washed play sand for substrate and its quite bare other than a basking piece of driftwood in the center for the two BN plecos that currently share the grow out space with the Oscars and some terracotta pots for the big boys to call their own, tank stays somewhat peaceful unless one of the O's gets moody ( especially if I'm wearing a "loud" shirt ) and the sand stays somewhat clean, the BN's compete for biggest waste producers with the Oscars at the moment and my bacteria colony seem to be holding on strong.

So with that said, Would I be dreaming trying to make 2 x Oscars, 2 x Plecos ( Sailfin & Goldspot ) 6 x Silver Dollars work in a 4ftx2ftx2ft 120G with only 1x FX6 Canister to filter the lot?,
maybe some above tank plants like Pothos and Monstera as I already have some Monstera Deliciosa growing out of the Oscars Current 55G.

Thanks for the heads up on the Nitrates, ill be more vigilant.

 

[CHOMPERS]

The plants are an outstanding idea. They will help greatly in Improving the water quality.

 

[duanes]

I also keep plants to help work on nitrates, using a heavily planted 125 gal tank, as a sump (filter) for my 180 cichlid tank (total 300 gals).
For plants to do some realistic damage on nitrates, the plant weight ratio, need sto far out weigh the fish weight ratio.
This 6ft tank below, is what I use for plant filtration.

 

[Sicklidsbruh]

Wow, total envy right now as I've only got a few floaters of Monstera's, that tank looks lush green and fantastic! seems I definitely need to up my plant % and why not, free fertilizer all year round and the lawn & garden is already going absolutely bananas being fed the tank water on WC days, can almost sustain most of the garden on just the fish tanks water alone.

Weird long question coming but I have also recently acquired an outdoor pond roughly 700G, filled with all sorts of goldies, barbs and koi, I know ecosystem mixing is a bit of an ehhh game but basically how the pond is set up, there is a massive section of overflow that runs a waterfall back into the pond and what the water flows through its CAKED in Giant duckweed, I know duckweed is an especially touchy subject in the hobby as many would burn down their houses to be rid of it and others would rather make a house out of it lol the duality of man is strong with duckweed.

Now from what I know of the Duckweed genus of plant, its among the fastest if not the fastest growing plant on the planet, with an incredible ability to remove nitrogen from the water and reproduce at an alarmingly invasive rate, seeing as I have the Giant version its actually quite easy to maintain and scoop up and toss away overgrowth from the pond, I've actually allowed one of my friends who has a cold water goldfish aquarium to take a handful and line the top of their goldfish tank with the duckweed for a more "natural environment" and the goldys love it.

Would it be possible to do the same thing on my bigger tank or is it really just not worth the trouble dealing with sterilization and overgrowth maintenance with the Giant Duckweed source I already own?

Only reason I ask is going sump route and densely planting that up ATM with curious young kids and a clumsy doggo running around isn't what I'd call ideal, the sealed state of a canister shines through strong in this situation, realistically getting that many plants into an Oscars tank and keeping them situated is not gonna go down well I know that, from what I've heard they'll rip and toss away anything that hasn't had a good time to establish roots and I've watched many Swords be torn to absolute buggery already that I kind of gave up with aquatic plants and looked towards converting terrestrials into submerged growers, to much surprise after a few days of nipping at the stalks of the Monstera I cut up, both Oscars left them alone in due time and roots started going gang busters from the nodes shortly after the Oscar's harassment ceased.

Given the nature of Oscars towards plant life is why I thought maybe the giant duckweed could do the job of removing nitrogen, be hardy enough to take the grunt of a grumpy Oscar every now and again, still be able to reproduce easily and isn't in short supply should the Oscars start to win, although from what I've heard duckweed will invade everything, even your soul, so I figured its a good defender against a moody Oscar or two.

Any help or advice is much appreciated, sorry for the wall of text I don't speak to passionate fish keepers nearly enough and it shows, bless you all.

 

[duanes]

I use water lettuce and salvinia, in the same way you are suggesting using duckweed.
Almost every day I scoop out a couple hand fulls of these two species, to throw on the compost heap (directly removing nitrate from the system), and because otherwise they block out too much sunlight to submerged plants.


Way back when, I did the same with duckweed.
Great way to export unwanted nutrients like nitrate



View attachment IMG_1522.jpeg

 

[jjohnwm]

I know duckweed is an especially touchy subject in the hobby as many would burn down their houses to be rid of it and others would rather make a house out of it lol the duality of man is strong with duckweed....

Now from what I know of the Duckweed genus of plant, its among the fastest if not the fastest growing plant on the planet, with an incredible ability to remove nitrogen from the water and reproduce at an alarmingly invasive rate, seeing as I have the Giant version its actually quite easy to maintain and scoop up and toss away overgrowth from the pond, I've actually allowed one of my friends who has a cold water goldfish aquarium to take a handful and line the top of their goldfish tank with the duckweed for a more "natural environment" and the goldys love it.

Would it be possible to do the same thing on my bigger tank or is it really just not worth the trouble dealing with sterilization and overgrowth maintenance with the Giant Duckweed source I already own?

I always get a chuckle out of the reactions of some aquarists towards duckweed. It does what you say it does...grows like wildfire and is an easy way to literally remove handfuls of nitrate and other waste products and nutrients from an aquarium. It can grow so thick that it will indeed shade out your "real" plants. But...removing 95% or 99% of the duckweed from almost any tank takes about 10 seconds; perhaps a bit more if it is mixed up with other floating plants. Yes, completely eliminating it from any tank system can be almost impossible...but listening to the overly dramatic wailing from some folks because they have a bit of duckweed in their tanks is comical.

If ever you decide to experiment with DIY gel foods, duckweed (along with hair algae, another unjustly maligned "plant") is an absolutely terrific addition to them that bulks them up and provides excellent nutrition for herbivores.

Exploit it...appreciate it...admire it...cull it ruthlessly...but don't complain about it; it's good stuff.

 

[LukeOscar]

I always get a chuckle out of the reactions of some aquarists towards duckweed. It does what you say it does...grows like wildfire and is an easy way to literally remove handfuls of nitrate and other waste products and nutrients from an aquarium. It can grow so thick that it will indeed shade out your "real" plants. But...removing 95% or 99% of the duckweed from almost any tank takes about 10 seconds; perhaps a bit more if it is mixed up with other floating plants. Yes, completely eliminating it from any tank system can be almost impossible...but listening to the overly dramatic wailing from some folks because they have a bit of duckweed in their tanks is comical.

If ever you decide to experiment with DIY gel foods, duckweed (along with hair algae, another unjustly maligned "plant") is an absolutely terrific addition to them that bulks them up and provides excellent nutrition for herbivores.

Exploit it...appreciate it...admire it...cull it ruthlessly...but don't complain about it; it's good stuff.

this wins the response of the day forsure

 

[Sicklidsbruh]

I always get a chuckle out of the reactions of some aquarists towards duckweed. It does what you say it does...grows like wildfire and is an easy way to literally remove handfuls of nitrate and other waste products and nutrients from an aquarium. It can grow so thick that it will indeed shade out your "real" plants. But...removing 95% or 99% of the duckweed from almost any tank takes about 10 seconds; perhaps a bit more if it is mixed up with other floating plants. Yes, completely eliminating it from any tank system can be almost impossible...but listening to the overly dramatic wailing from some folks because they have a bit of duckweed in their tanks is comical.

If ever you decide to experiment with DIY gel foods, duckweed (along with hair algae, another unjustly maligned "plant") is an absolutely terrific addition to them that bulks them up and provides excellent nutrition for herbivores.

Exploit it...appreciate it...admire it...cull it ruthlessly...but don't complain about it; it's good stuff.

As I'd be taking the giant duckweed directly out of a outdoor pond system and introducing it to an indoor aquarium, any steps I need to take before introducing? Or am I err'ing on the side of caution too much, being a worry wort and should just wash em and chuck em in?

I'm not that worried about it over growing and shading out too much as you said removing a chunk every so often is quite simple, my light even on its lowest setting is still a bit bright sometimes so I'm sure the Oscars will prefer a little bit of dim area to chill in from time to time and as the tank is quite bare there isn't a risk of blocking out real plants underneath as nothing real dwells down there long enough without getting shredded to need the light lol, so all in all it seems like a win-win, heck even the DIY gel route is something I didn't personally consider but piques my interest so thankyou for that tidbit.

On the subject of hair algae, would say pond hair algae be able to be used as a nutrition addition to food being fed to indoor aquarium fish? I'm not even sure if this is a dumb question or not but I've been told not to willy-nilly mix the two ecosystems haphazardly, using the pond plants for food and nitrogen removal for indoor tanks doesn't seem like a non-brainer at first, not like say terrestrial plant adding, as something established aquatic being introduced into another aquatic environment brings risks of disease and pests etc, they always say don't remove something from nature and just chuck it into your tank, I'd assume the same rules would apply to even a personal outdoor pond as it is its own ecosystem.

duanes those pictures are absolutely stunning and that filtration looks amazing, thankyou for sharing your knowledge and set up I appreciate it.