The hobby of fishkeeping really has come a long way in a short time. Makes you wonder what we're doing right now that people will laugh at in a few years...
how bad is this???
- Thread starter jagsandpits
- Start date
The hobby of fishkeeping really has come a long way in a short time. Makes you wonder what we're doing right now that people will laugh at in a few years...
I don't know, information gets circulated so fast now.
In the mid-70'd I learned that doing "radical" 25% wc's per week transformed my fish-killing practices into fish-keeping ;-)
Now I often siphon the water down to "just enough" for them to stay upright at bottom of tank, & then refill. it's highly stimulating for the fish.
I place titanium heaters horizontal near bottom (in case I forget to unplug before changes) and just move their digital temp probes down there for changes. makes monitoring refill temp SO much easier than with old bobbing thermometers, or hang-ons with miniscule numbers ... can't believe I hassled with that for so many years. LOL. Now I just glance up on the wall at big lit up numbers. whoopee!
;-)
Alot has to do with the points Petspoiler mentioned. Back in the 60's and 70's it was all info obtained by books and phone calls to fellow hobbyists (and not with cell phones lol)
The Internet has made it so where information can be discussed and shared immediately.....around the world. Of course, its still up to the fish keeper to decide what is good info or not, but either way, its very useful tool and discussions like this advance the hobby very quickly.
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
yes, back in the dark ages there were things called books. Lol.
but those were a costly treasure, (for me) to read about fish species, not so much on maintenance issues.
I gleaned most of my practical info from small lfs owners. Learning was an excruciatingly slow process. first of all, I had to get to the store. that in itself was like a safari ;-)
rofl. If only those people knew how much every little morsel of info mattered.
but those were a costly treasure, (for me) to read about fish species, not so much on maintenance issues.
I gleaned most of my practical info from small lfs owners. Learning was an excruciatingly slow process. first of all, I had to get to the store. that in itself was like a safari ;-)
rofl. If only those people knew how much every little morsel of info mattered.
It could be the case that your water is suspect. But you can't extrapolate from that to tell a plethora of other experienced fishkeepers who are doing well while doing large water changes that what is clearly working for them doesn't actually work. Certainly you realize there are a LOT of other knowledgeable and experienced aquarists out there and that different fishkeepers have differing approaches to filtration and tank maintenance, don't you?
They don't have aquarium water conditioners where you come from? If you're talking about chlorine/chloramine, that's what water conditioners do, render them harmless. IF you don't understand this, I don't care if you've kept fish for 200 years, you have a lot to learn. If, for some reason your water has other less common chemicals in it or other toxins most people aren't dealing with, than this is covered by what I said above: It depends on the quality and consistency of your new water vs. your tank water.
So, again, in some instances your water may be such of such poor quality that you'd want to limit the size of your water changes-- or do some additional treatment yourself before adding it to your tank. If this is the case in your area, then point taken. But this doesn't apply to everyone, as you should be able to see by the number of respected aquarists here who are telling you they've been doing large water changes for years. These are not newbies who are stating this, these are people who have kept fish for many years with plenty of success to show for it.
O Ok now I understand... So you guys all fill your water full of other chenicals to try to counter react with the other chemicls that are already in it and think that is the way to go!!!! ??? Well I don't put any chemicals in my water at all, If you know what you are doing you don't have to.... Just let the water run for 24 to 48 hours with good movement and it will all escape by its self and you don't have to do that to your fish!!! But y'all do what you do with your fish and I will do mine the right way!!! HAPPY FISH KEEPING!!!!
I guess if you've got tap water that suits your fish then big water changes are great. I have a limited water supply over summer (reliant on rain water collected on our roof) so I'm not just going to change water for the fun of it. On top of that, if I changed 50% of my water I would halve the mineral hardness of the aquarium water, not really ideal for the fish. That would quite likely result in a big drop in pH given the amount of wood I have in the tank, at least until the crushed shell I have in my substrate starts to do it's thing and buffer the water again. I could possibly invest in a large tank to allow me to pre-heat and buffer 1000L of water at a time, but my heating bill is enough already, so what's the point? I'm running light stock in the 2000L and pothos in the sump, and I don't ever plan on changing more than about 10-15% per week. So far I have barely been able to get a detectable nitrate reading (yes the tank is cycled, ammonia and nitrite constantly undetectable).
Even when I had all the fish now in the 2000L tank living in a 400L tank (six altifrons, black aro, and a ton of messy plecs) ~30% weekly WC was enough to keep all the parameters well within acceptable levels, and the growth and health of the fish speak for themselves. Obviously with heavily stocked fry grow-out tanks you want to do large and frequent water changes, I'm well aware that there is more to it than the parameters we regularly test for. But with just a regular "fish tank" changing huge amounts of water simply for the fun of it doesn't make much sense to me. If you can keep your nitrates low with 30-40% weekly WC, I'd be sceptical about how much you're gaining by changing 60-70% instead. I'd love to see someone who has multiple tanks and does massive water changes actually do a bit of scientific experimentation to see if there really is any benefit to changing huge amounts of water over just what is needed to keep the parameters in check.
As I said, if your tap water suits your fish and you can avoid big swings in temperature or pH/hardness then you're probably not doing any harm by changing large amounts of water. The real question is what are you gaining?
*edit*
I know this is getting a bit off-topic, and the question of how much water do we really need to change has already been discussed here; http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?523929-Zero-Nitrates-Water-Changes-Why
Makes for interesting reading.
Even when I had all the fish now in the 2000L tank living in a 400L tank (six altifrons, black aro, and a ton of messy plecs) ~30% weekly WC was enough to keep all the parameters well within acceptable levels, and the growth and health of the fish speak for themselves. Obviously with heavily stocked fry grow-out tanks you want to do large and frequent water changes, I'm well aware that there is more to it than the parameters we regularly test for. But with just a regular "fish tank" changing huge amounts of water simply for the fun of it doesn't make much sense to me. If you can keep your nitrates low with 30-40% weekly WC, I'd be sceptical about how much you're gaining by changing 60-70% instead. I'd love to see someone who has multiple tanks and does massive water changes actually do a bit of scientific experimentation to see if there really is any benefit to changing huge amounts of water over just what is needed to keep the parameters in check.
As I said, if your tap water suits your fish and you can avoid big swings in temperature or pH/hardness then you're probably not doing any harm by changing large amounts of water. The real question is what are you gaining?
*edit*
I know this is getting a bit off-topic, and the question of how much water do we really need to change has already been discussed here; http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?523929-Zero-Nitrates-Water-Changes-Why
Makes for interesting reading.
Actually, no. I've had well water for the past 20 years, so it's not necessary in my case. But if you want to criticize the 90% of the fishkeeping community who for decades have followed the standard practice of adding Prime, Stress Coat, or any of the other dechlorinators/dechloraminators specifically formulated by aquaculture scientists for exactly that purpose, and you somehow think that rejecting this standard practice makes you more qualified than most other aquarists or more qualified than the aquaculture scientists themselves, then knock yourself out, but don't count on having much credibility.
No. As I said earlier, twice, I run a carbon block on my drip. I add nothing to my water.
You should check your local water supply before you recommend not treating replacement water, especially as more and more cities are using chloramine instead of chlorine.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
@David R.
I don't know who is saying large water changes are a necessity. I'm not. Certainly limited water resources or paying high water bills or other factors might make it completely logical not to do extravagant water changes. But, again, depending on the quality and consistency of your water vs. your tank water, large water changes can absolutely be done without any problems. There is no one size fits all formula for water changes. I'm on record on multiple forums for a number of years in saying that numerous times. People should do what works for them.
What I, or any of the other long time fishkeepers here, don't need is someone telling me that after many years of fishkeeping, having bred and raised thousands of fish, and having my fish routinely live long and healthy lives, that I'm doing it wrong.
I don't know who is saying large water changes are a necessity. I'm not. Certainly limited water resources or paying high water bills or other factors might make it completely logical not to do extravagant water changes. But, again, depending on the quality and consistency of your water vs. your tank water, large water changes can absolutely be done without any problems. There is no one size fits all formula for water changes. I'm on record on multiple forums for a number of years in saying that numerous times. People should do what works for them.
What I, or any of the other long time fishkeepers here, don't need is someone telling me that after many years of fishkeeping, having bred and raised thousands of fish, and having my fish routinely live long and healthy lives, that I'm doing it wrong.
