How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
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May 16, 2011
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Believe what you want about the disinfectant and bleach comments. Sadly it resulted in people actually consuming bleach.
Hello; Since I actually watched the press conference and actually saw in real time what happened I do know. What happened later is the attack media twisted the story and made a big deal out of it. The spin went on and on and now you want to continue the false narrative. My take is had the opposition media not tried to use it against Trump, the question would have been left as the nothing event it actually was.
You say some drank bleach. I do not know one way or the other. I wonder if this could be more spin and distortion. Pretty sure there are warning labels on bleach bottles.
 

dogofwar

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As I posted, believe what you want.

Pretty sure there are black box warnings on hydrochloroquine. Yet - on the advice of a dude who ran a fraudulent university and filed bankruptcy six times- lots of people argue that it's safe...and take it. And have serious or deadly side effects.

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a Drug Safety Communication today reminding doctors there are serious side effects when using hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in the off-label use to treat COVID-19 patients. This includes potentially life-threatening heart rhythm problems..."


Hello; Since I actually watched the press conference and actually saw in real time what happened I do know. What happened later is the attack media twisted the story and made a big deal out of it. The spin went on and on and now you want to continue the false narrative. My take is had the opposition media not tried to use it against Trump, the question would have been left as the nothing event it actually was.
You say some drank bleach. I do not know one way or the other. I wonder if this could be more spin and distortion. Pretty sure there are warning labels on bleach bottles.
 
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Ogertron3000

Aimara
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You really cant blame anyone for deaths by caused by drinking bleach except the person who actually drank it.
Everyone is told from childhood how dangerous it is, theres warning labels on all the bottles and a childproof cap.
It doesnt matter who suggested it (not saying trump did or didnt as i didnt see the actual press conference) but if you are an adult and drink bleach you only have yourself to blame if you die or best case scenario get really sick. No adult with any sense can seriously think drinking bleach is a good idea no matter who says it.

Anyway we are straying into dangerous ground discussing this so best ease off or the thread may get locked again.
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
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Hello; If I were to be diagnosed with cancer there is a good chance chemo would be prescribed by a doctor. The side effects of chemo are very damaging to the human body. It is a trade off for the chance the chemo will kill the cancer. After treatment I might have permanent damage from the chemo for the rest of my life.
Near as I can tell every medication has potential risk for side effects, from daily aspirin on. The hydroxychloroquine will have it's own set of risks as will any other medication.

This vaccine is called safe but we who took it did so under an emergency approval. That means if there turns out to be serious side effects we cannot sue or otherwise get compensation. We will be stuck with the consequences. Fair enough, I understood this when I took the vaccine. I hope every one who took a shot also understood this. It is an emergency so we were asked to take a chance with the vaccine with the hope it would turn out OK.

The same sort of emergency status ought to apply with the hydroxychloroquine. It is a low cost drug which has been administered to lots of people for nearly 70 years. The side effect are well known by now. If I go to a doctor and get a positive test for covid, then I ought to be able to talk to my doctor and weigh the risk with the potential rewards. It has been my understanding taking the drug at the earliest part of the infection gave the better benefits. Not a cure in any sense. More a way to help the body fight off the virus. The same way ice packs can be used to help with a high fever. The ice is not a cure but it helps the body. If my doctor figures a round of any drug might help, then it ought to be my choice. Do the emergency bit so I cannot come back and sue if needed.

I was lucky in that I did not catch the virus before I got the vaccine.
 
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dogofwar

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You are far overstating the potential risks of COVID vaccination and far understating the risks of hydrochloroquine. Which is misinformation.

From the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR): "Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are approved to treat autoimmune diseases and to prevent and treat malaria. Earlier this year, they were widely reported to be of potential benefit in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19; however, current data indicate that the potential benefits of these drugs do not outweigh their risks."


Hello; If I were to be diagnosed with cancer there is a good chance chemo would be prescribed by a doctor. The side effects of chemo are very damaging to the human body. It is a trade off for the chance the chemo will kill the cancer. After treatment I might have permanent damage from the chemo for the rest of my life.
Near as I can tell every medication has potential risk for side effects, from daily aspirin on. The hydroxychloroquine will have it's own set of risks as will any other medication.

This vaccine is called safe but we who took it did so under an emergency approval. That means if there turns out to be serious side effects we cannot sue or otherwise get compensation. We will be stuck with the consequences. Fair enough, I understood this when I took the vaccine. I hope every one who took a shot also understood this. It is an emergency so we were asked to take a chance with the vaccine with the hope it would turn out OK.

The same sort of emergency status ought to apply with the hydroxychloroquine. It is a low cost drug which has been administered to lots of people for nearly 70 years. The side effect are well known by now. If I go to a doctor and get a positive test for covid, then I ought to be able to talk to my doctor and weigh the risk with the potential rewards. It has been my understanding taking the drug at the earliest part of the infection gave the better benefits. Not a cure in any sense. More a way to help the body fight off the virus. The same way ice packs can be used to help with a high fever. The ice is not a cure but it helps the body. If my doctor figures a round of any drug might help, then it ought to be my choice. Do the emergency bit so I cannot come back and sue if needed.

I was lucky in that I did not catch the virus before I got the vaccine.
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
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May 16, 2011
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You are far overstating the potential risks of COVID vaccination and far understating the risks of hydrochloroquine. Which is misinformation.

From the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR): "Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are approved to treat autoimmune diseases and to prevent and treat malaria. Earlier this year, they were widely reported to be of potential benefit in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19; however, current data indicate that the potential benefits of these drugs do not outweigh their risks."

Hello; First I did not quantify any risks of the vaccine, only that there is a potential for risk. If such was not the case thee vaccine would not be under an emergency provision. I hope the vaccine is indeed safe since I took one. However I knew I was taking a gamble.
I did not state the risks of hydroxychloroquine at all. I said that doctors know the risks of a drug in use for decades. Such is not an understatement in any sense.

How about this. You get to decide with your doctor which risk is worth it when taking a drug and I get to do the same with my doctor. A couple years ago I had an infected bug bite on my leg. The doctor prescribed some antibiotics and i filled the prescription. I told her I would take the antibiotics if the infection did not start to clear up. The infection cleared up without the antibiotics. I tend to avoid antibiotics if at all possible. My choice and my risk to take.
 

dogofwar

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Characterizing taking the vaccine as a "gamble" is a misrepresentation. All vaccines have undergone rigorous clinical trials and testing with close ongoing tracking of reactions and side effects. And serious reactions are remarkably rare.

The risks and serious side effects of hydrochloroquine are also known. The surge in prescriptions - and serious side effects - by physicians who had never prescribed it before after it was baselessly promoted as a cure led the CDC to release the report and determination that I posted above.

Hello; First I did not quantify any risks of the vaccine, only that there is a potential for risk. If such was not the case thee vaccine would not be under an emergency provision. I hope the vaccine is indeed safe since I took one. However I knew I was taking a gamble.
I did not state the risks of hydroxychloroquine at all. I said that doctors know the risks of a drug in use for decades. Such is not an understatement in any sense.

How about this. You get to decide with your doctor which risk is worth it when taking a drug and I get to do the same with my doctor. A couple years ago I had an infected bug bite on my leg. The doctor prescribed some antibiotics and i filled the prescription. I told her I would take the antibiotics if the infection did not start to clear up. The infection cleared up without the antibiotics. I tend to avoid antibiotics if at all possible. My choice and my risk to take.
 
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skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
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May 16, 2011
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Characterizing taking the vaccine as a "gamble" is a misrepresentation.
Hello; You get to have an opinion same as me. Even if the vaccine had undergone the full standard certification there would still be the potential of some side effects. This has happened with vaccines before. This covid19 group of vaccines are indeed under an emergency use approval. I note you do not challenge that part. Nor do you challenge the part about having no recourse if there does turn out to be a problem for those of us who have taken the vaccines.

May not amount to much but there are reports of heart problems in young people the last few days. Too early to say for sure if the vaccines are the culprit. Should it turn out to cause heart issues, it is my understanding we cannot hold the vaccine companies liable under the emergency use status. I do hope the vaccines turn out to be safe over time. That will be good for the future of vaccines if this method of making vaccines holds out to be safe. However we did in fact have a risk or gamble in my words when we took the shots.

If some want to not take such a gamble they should wait until the vaccines get the regular approval for use. Right now the vaccines are under emergency use status.
 
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jjohnwm

Aimara
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Mar 29, 2019
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Characterizing taking the vaccine as a "gamble" is a misrepresentation. All vaccines have undergone rigorous clinical trials and testing with close ongoing tracking of reactions and side effects. And serious reactions are remarkably rare.

The risks and serious side effects of hydrochloroquine are also known. The surge in prescriptions - and serious side effects - by physicians who had never prescribed it before after it was baselessly promoted as a cure led the CDC to release the report and determination that I posted above.
While I agree with the overall thought here, I think that perhaps you are exaggerating in one direction much as opposing viewpoints are often exaggerated in the opposite direction. Of course there is an element of risk associated with taking the vaccine, just as there is with virtually any medical treatment or procedure. No amount of testing or clinical trials is sufficient to remove all risk; the slight possibility always exists that an individual will have an allergic reaction to a drug or vaccine, or an "event" may occur during some minor routine surgery that complicates things and threatens a life. Our sheltered lives today lead many people to demand absolutes; everything must be absolutely safe, must be 100% effective, and must carry no risk whatsoever.

Unfortunately, living...even in the 21st century...is still a risky endeavour. Nothing anyone says or does can change this fact; it's simply the cost of doing business on planet Earth. I would wager that there is far more risk to life and limb that is incurred simply by leaving your home and driving to the doctor's office than there is from taking the vaccine...but, since this particular risk is a familiar one it is accepted and ignored. The virus and the vaccine are, relatively, new and scary so of course they are fertile ground for worry and argument.

But...people gotta argue. Everybody cherry-picks the small bits of data that support their viewpoints, and then embellishes and exaggerates them while ignoring or downplaying opposing evidence. It's just human nature. The only difference is that today we have far more people whose livelihoods revolve around just this sort spin-doctoring. It's all they do, and they are naturally very good at doing it.

But...nobody's 100% right and nobody's 100% wrong. Everybody must think for themselves; the sad part is that many hate that idea and/or are frightened by it...

Interesting thread. Too bad that it is almost guaranteed to offend someone somehow and of course that is unacceptable...
 
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dogofwar

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It would make zero sense for COVID vaccines to undergo what you call "full standard certification" - as it would greatly delay the availability of a proven, tested vaccine for a disease that has killed hundreds of thousands, hospitalized millions, etc.

It appears that you misunderstand the difference between an emergency use authorization and regular FDA approval. All vaccines follow the same testing processes, whether they are approved for emergency use or through a typical license.

Whether an EUA or the typical process, clinical trials are conducted in three phases:
In Phase 1, the vaccine is given to a small number of generally healthy people to assess its safety and effectiveness.
In Phase 2, the vaccine is given to hundreds of people with different health conditions and from diverse demographic groups.
In Phase 3, the vaccine is administered to thousands of people across demographic groups and immune responses are compared against placebos, which are doses that don’t contain any of the vaccine and are used for testing purposes only.

Once Phase 3 trials are complete, the FDA reviews the data to determine whether the vaccine works and is safe. If so, the manufacturer files for approval.

This is where the process may change due to a public health emergency, such as the COVID-19 pandemic.

Usually, the manufacturer would apply for a Biologics License Application (BLA). If the FDA determines that the vaccine is safe, works and that manufacturing can be done safely and consistently, it will grant a license for the vaccine.

In a public health emergency, manufacturing may occur while vaccines are still in development, rather than after approval. These efforts happen simultaneously, and instead of filing for a BLA, the manufacturer files for Emergency Use Authorization.

If the benefits outweigh any possible risks of the vaccine and manufacturing quality can be ensured, the FDA will approve the vaccine for emergency use.

Here are more details: https://vaccine.unchealthcare.org/s...emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/

So the idea that there are more side effects or more severe ones because the FDA approved the COVID vaccines through EUA is false and repeating this misinformation perpetuates the falsehood that the vaccines are riskier than they are.

Hello; You get to have an opinion same as me. Even if the vaccine had undergone the full standard certification there would still be the potential of some side effects. This has happened with vaccines before. This covid19 group of vaccines are indeed under an emergency use approval. I note you do not challenge that part. Nor do you challenge the part about having no recourse if there does turn out to be a problem for those of us who have taken the vaccines.

May not amount to much but there are reports of heart problems in young people the last few days. Too early to say for sure if the vaccines are the culprit. Should it turn out to cause heart issues, it is my understanding we cannot hold the vaccine companies liable under the emergency use status. I do hope the vaccines turn out to be safe over time. That will be good for the future of vaccines if this method of making vaccines holds out to be safe. However we did in fact have a risk or gamble in my words when we took the shots.

If some want to not take such a gamble they should wait until the vaccines get the regular approval for use. Right now the vaccines are under emergency use status.
 
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