My gars feeder guppys have babies,lol!
- Thread starter spwd
- Start date
spwd;2553996; said:
dude enough with the ranting man. as solomon said no one's discrediting you or saying you dont have experience keeping fish. and it's a pain reading through all that anger everytime you post. anyways, by saying "if the water was bad wouldnt the plec show signs or the guppys be so healthy and have babies?" i assumed you meant that guppies couldn't have babies in bad water...
what didn't make sense is that richard would have dismissed a problem with the tank or husbandtry if you gave him the same info you posted in this thread...
Hi xander,i did give richard this info,this is the third thread that this has all been said, 4 if you count the one on ap when i spoke to richard,im just fed up with saying the same things over and over and ok ive got a bit of ammonia which is sorted now, but i know what im doing with my water,thats what im trying to get across and people keep saying its the water or the way im looking after him,yet every other fish i have are fine,and the fact that 3 people,me included have had the same results buying gars from the same place at the same time,and i do think the guppys are picking on him! Lol it wouldnt surprise me, got myself a big one today and hes gone straight in the big tank,i was planning on a smaller one to go with the little fellow but they had sold out,and sorry for the rants i do get wound up quite easily.thanks again for everyones input.
Cheers steve
Cheers steve
If he had is ass floating then he was bloated....Which is often caused by an impaction in gars. I covered this already.....
For the record, and not that I want to go over this since it is rather pointless at this point. Tetracycline is made inactive by High calcium and magnesium I.E. Hardness not so much by pH. If you read through the treatment I suggested you would see it is a dosed schedule that actually inhibits the drugs Half life for a slow dose and limited release anyhow (by the use of Epsom salts I.E. magnesium salt) which is the point. This drug is highly effective on gar with this condition but it is also dangerous to use with full dosing. While your vet may have "smarts", I really doubt the individual has much experience in treatments for gars or other primitive fish or would have caught on to just why the treatment I proposed was structured the way it was with the drug and salt combination I suggested. Your vet instead prescribed a totally unknown effect antibiotic to a fish it has never been tested on.. The above treatment I suggested on the other hand has been very well tested, frequently, and was even used to treat a priceless one of a kind Gar with a similar condition. I would not have suggested it if it was not effective for the treatment of the fish...
Anyhow good luck with the fish.. I can't really help you much if you are not willing to work with us on sorting out what the problem is. I do not believe it is just a matter of what batch the fish is from. Gar are not like this... If it is not feeding properly then there is something screwed up with either the fish, your water, or your husbandry. What you need to do is find out which of the above apply and correct it. Otherwise we are continually going in circles which is not productive and the fish is just going to go downhill more.
Hi
richard? I never said i doubted your diagnosis,but i cant just get the vet to give me this drug and that drug, this is what he prescribed so i had to go with it,and it helped,
I am working with you but when people keep saying its your water or he cant hide anywhere,when ive proved that the water is fine.(oh hold on a minute i said fine and ive got a little ammonia in my tank in one test out of a hundred! Shoot me!
Hes always had plenty of hiding places the waters always been good and ive tried every method and food but
all he will eat is blood worms or the feeders,but very slowly
I think people are missing the fact
That if i starve him for any length of time,he will not eat anything i put in until i put blood worms in and he will eat the lot,so his appetite is fine as long as its the right stuff.
The water is fine the tank mates dont exist and hes got hiding places,ive tried daily water changes and every
three days and every week,ive tried everything! But he will not eat anything else
richard? I never said i doubted your diagnosis,but i cant just get the vet to give me this drug and that drug, this is what he prescribed so i had to go with it,and it helped,
I am working with you but when people keep saying its your water or he cant hide anywhere,when ive proved that the water is fine.(oh hold on a minute i said fine and ive got a little ammonia in my tank in one test out of a hundred! Shoot me!
Hes always had plenty of hiding places the waters always been good and ive tried every method and food but
all he will eat is blood worms or the feeders,but very slowly
I think people are missing the fact
That if i starve him for any length of time,he will not eat anything i put in until i put blood worms in and he will eat the lot,so his appetite is fine as long as its the right stuff.
The water is fine the tank mates dont exist and hes got hiding places,ive tried daily water changes and every
three days and every week,ive tried everything! But he will not eat anything else
Steve,
As I said this has to do with one of three things. Which is why I am in particular looking at these three things and trying to diagnose what is wrong one thing at a time. Unfortunately I can not see your tank or see how you are feeding the fish or observe your fish so I need information from you in order to sort stuff out. A few key things that needs to be clear is your tank set-up, the water quality and how your feeding and caring for the fish. This means I do want to see some water parameters. Ammonia as mentioned is of particular importance. In order to work this out lets take each thing one at a time. I'm not demeaning you or not listening to you by asking you specific questions (sometimes redundantly). This is elementary distance diagnosis..
First was getting the fish in order. This was done, I would however not expect this to not occur again as a diet of bloodworms and other inverts has a tendency of being a problem in these fish.
Second.. Water.. You mentioned yourself the reading of ammonia this is of concern. I take it however you have fixed this issue which is good. Keep an eye on that. Two suggestions I would make is to bump up the water changes to 50% for a bit while trying some new food items. (Which we will get to next) and test your water from the tap.. See if that ammonia is coming in from your water. If you have done this Cool.. just let me know so it can be crossed of the list.. Another option is to reduce water changes and see how the fish reacts, just keep an eye on Ammonia when doing this. Some gar really do like their water well aged and "broken in" rather than having a constant turn over. My Wisconson population shortnosed are like this. They throw a hissy on me if I change their water to often or too much of it at a time.
Third.. Need some info.. I know some of this has been covered but I'm asking again as I really do not want to go over all these posts again. (I did review the AP thread again)
What is the size of the fish again?
What size tank is the fish in?
What is your filtration and water current like?
What is the light intensity?
How do you offer feed to the fish? Still frozen / thawed? Is he taking the food only at the surface or also on the bottom?
What other types of feed have you offered? What was the fishes interest in the items?
Do you feed early in the morning or at night? Have you tried feeding other items under reduced lighting?
Again sorry for the redundancy but this information will help out a lot...
Gars do not normally act like yours.. There has to be some factor that is affecting the fish. Having personally raised well over a couple hundred gar many from Larval to adult I can assure you that this can be figured out and fixed.. It is likely not really the fish or where you got it from. 99.9% of these problems are due to one factor or another in the environment around the fish or something is off that is not favorable to the fish. Often in working with a difficult fish you have to take multiple approaches to the problem and tinker with them until you get them to where they "like being".
As I said this has to do with one of three things. Which is why I am in particular looking at these three things and trying to diagnose what is wrong one thing at a time. Unfortunately I can not see your tank or see how you are feeding the fish or observe your fish so I need information from you in order to sort stuff out. A few key things that needs to be clear is your tank set-up, the water quality and how your feeding and caring for the fish. This means I do want to see some water parameters. Ammonia as mentioned is of particular importance. In order to work this out lets take each thing one at a time. I'm not demeaning you or not listening to you by asking you specific questions (sometimes redundantly). This is elementary distance diagnosis..
First was getting the fish in order. This was done, I would however not expect this to not occur again as a diet of bloodworms and other inverts has a tendency of being a problem in these fish.
Second.. Water.. You mentioned yourself the reading of ammonia this is of concern. I take it however you have fixed this issue which is good. Keep an eye on that. Two suggestions I would make is to bump up the water changes to 50% for a bit while trying some new food items. (Which we will get to next) and test your water from the tap.. See if that ammonia is coming in from your water. If you have done this Cool.. just let me know so it can be crossed of the list.. Another option is to reduce water changes and see how the fish reacts, just keep an eye on Ammonia when doing this. Some gar really do like their water well aged and "broken in" rather than having a constant turn over. My Wisconson population shortnosed are like this. They throw a hissy on me if I change their water to often or too much of it at a time.
Third.. Need some info.. I know some of this has been covered but I'm asking again as I really do not want to go over all these posts again. (I did review the AP thread again)
What is the size of the fish again?
What size tank is the fish in?
What is your filtration and water current like?
What is the light intensity?
How do you offer feed to the fish? Still frozen / thawed? Is he taking the food only at the surface or also on the bottom?
What other types of feed have you offered? What was the fishes interest in the items?
Do you feed early in the morning or at night? Have you tried feeding other items under reduced lighting?
Again sorry for the redundancy but this information will help out a lot...
Gars do not normally act like yours.. There has to be some factor that is affecting the fish. Having personally raised well over a couple hundred gar many from Larval to adult I can assure you that this can be figured out and fixed.. It is likely not really the fish or where you got it from. 99.9% of these problems are due to one factor or another in the environment around the fish or something is off that is not favorable to the fish. Often in working with a difficult fish you have to take multiple approaches to the problem and tinker with them until you get them to where they "like being".
I have a flordia gar and my husband and i love him! He is our favorite fish over everyone, i could never imagine giving him up.
Ok,the fish is 8.75 inches,and he was 6 inches when i bought him in jan 08,he reached this size in about three to four months so i thought ok thats not bad,but not brilliant,and at this point he would eat small mealworms which he took after a day in the tank.
When we first got him he was in the 20 inch X18x13,which was more than double his length and he seemed happy as he was growing ok but then we got the 2x2x2 and he went in there and was doing fine.
At this point he was about 8" then i got a 3 inch dat and put him in there with him,and he carried on growing with the dat in there,the gar would eat the mealworms and the dat would eat krill etc,then i saw the dat just have a little nip at him,which didnt seem to bother him,he didnt swim off or anything but over a week or so i saw the dat do this two or three more times so he went in the big tank,but the gar was still eating and didnt have any split fins or anything so there was just him in the tank for a about 4 or 5 months,this the period i noticed he didnt grow and one day stopped eating the meal worms and has not eaten one since?
I tried him on crickets which after a bit of coaxing he started eating them,but after about two weeks of perhaps one a day,he just stopped eating them too?
When i put them near him as i always did,he swims off like hes scared of it,and this is what he does if you offer him anything else but frozen or live bloodworm,and he will eat this morning noon or night at the top of the tank and when the worms sink he goes down and eats on the bottom.
The other foods ive tried with no success,and im sure i will have forgotten some but you will get the idea,are frozen large krill,small krill,fd krill and fd shrimp,frozen and fresh prawn,lancefish,cockle pieces and pieces of mussel and frozen mussel,beefheart,artemia,brine shrimp,discus food,etc etc.
The pellets and flake ive tried are tetra colour,tetra prima,bloodworm pellets,big and small carnivore pellets,sinking and floating cichlid gold jbl aro pellets,hikari aro sticks etc.
Crickets of all sizes,small and large mealworms,earthworms,im sure there are more but i think you get the idea.
Ive tried feeding the frozen thawed and frozen,and soaking them in bloodworm,and ive tried this with most of the foods above.
The light is a single 15" tropical bulb,with 60% of it covered up so not bright.
The filtration is an internal fluval,and a 380l huey hueng sponge filter and a bubblebar,and ive put the fluval so that he can sit at the top and hes not in the flow but the flow isnt very strong anyway,the sponge filter is more powerful,i was going to upgrade to a 205 or 305 fluval but think they may be too powerful,and like i said i know the water has got a bit of amm in but usually its zero,ive tried big wcs and small wcs and leaving it for like two weeks but this didnt make any difference,he does seem quite happy swimming about but its like his brain is programmed not to recognise any other food lol!
Also if i drop a worm in or a pellet or whatever and it lands on him or right next to him,he swims off like hes scared of it!
Ive tried feeding with the lights on and off and the room light on and off and even a small lamp on near the tank but he just doesnt show any interest at all,not even mouthing it and spitting it out he just ignores it,im going to try some bloodworm pellets soaked in bloodworm again.
The tank is in a very quiet part of the house with no through traffic so hes not getting spooked.
Think ive covered everything,hope this helps.
cheers steve
When we first got him he was in the 20 inch X18x13,which was more than double his length and he seemed happy as he was growing ok but then we got the 2x2x2 and he went in there and was doing fine.
At this point he was about 8" then i got a 3 inch dat and put him in there with him,and he carried on growing with the dat in there,the gar would eat the mealworms and the dat would eat krill etc,then i saw the dat just have a little nip at him,which didnt seem to bother him,he didnt swim off or anything but over a week or so i saw the dat do this two or three more times so he went in the big tank,but the gar was still eating and didnt have any split fins or anything so there was just him in the tank for a about 4 or 5 months,this the period i noticed he didnt grow and one day stopped eating the meal worms and has not eaten one since?
I tried him on crickets which after a bit of coaxing he started eating them,but after about two weeks of perhaps one a day,he just stopped eating them too?
When i put them near him as i always did,he swims off like hes scared of it,and this is what he does if you offer him anything else but frozen or live bloodworm,and he will eat this morning noon or night at the top of the tank and when the worms sink he goes down and eats on the bottom.
The other foods ive tried with no success,and im sure i will have forgotten some but you will get the idea,are frozen large krill,small krill,fd krill and fd shrimp,frozen and fresh prawn,lancefish,cockle pieces and pieces of mussel and frozen mussel,beefheart,artemia,brine shrimp,discus food,etc etc.
The pellets and flake ive tried are tetra colour,tetra prima,bloodworm pellets,big and small carnivore pellets,sinking and floating cichlid gold jbl aro pellets,hikari aro sticks etc.
Crickets of all sizes,small and large mealworms,earthworms,im sure there are more but i think you get the idea.
Ive tried feeding the frozen thawed and frozen,and soaking them in bloodworm,and ive tried this with most of the foods above.
The light is a single 15" tropical bulb,with 60% of it covered up so not bright.
The filtration is an internal fluval,and a 380l huey hueng sponge filter and a bubblebar,and ive put the fluval so that he can sit at the top and hes not in the flow but the flow isnt very strong anyway,the sponge filter is more powerful,i was going to upgrade to a 205 or 305 fluval but think they may be too powerful,and like i said i know the water has got a bit of amm in but usually its zero,ive tried big wcs and small wcs and leaving it for like two weeks but this didnt make any difference,he does seem quite happy swimming about but its like his brain is programmed not to recognise any other food lol!
Also if i drop a worm in or a pellet or whatever and it lands on him or right next to him,he swims off like hes scared of it!
Ive tried feeding with the lights on and off and the room light on and off and even a small lamp on near the tank but he just doesnt show any interest at all,not even mouthing it and spitting it out he just ignores it,im going to try some bloodworm pellets soaked in bloodworm again.
The tank is in a very quiet part of the house with no through traffic so hes not getting spooked.
Think ive covered everything,hope this helps.
cheers steve
