wow 1-2lb a day on one tank. i would say that would spike it with those giants eating. this makes since def. something to look into fbf im sure your rays have grown since your first batch of pups.
pup not acting right
- Thread starter Florencebigfish
- Start date
jeffers;4138828; said:
It's a pond, but same difference. Like I said, that's only 6 rays. Those pigs can slam a pound in under 2 minutes. The 2 males aren't over a foot either. I have found there's a HUGE difference in growing rays and maintaining rays. I think this may have contributed to some of my breeding issues. Why raise kids when you don't have enough to eat yourself.
It is pretty amazing to see exactly what big rays are capable of food wise when it comes time to feed after a day or 2 off.
I'm not gonna touch the Nitrate debate. Gets me in trouble everytime.....
Lets just say rays = Nitrate. Nitrate + drip = happy rays and happy ray keeper. BUT even a drip doesn't = balance when you start talking pups. The trick I've found with pups is volume over everything. As big of tank, as scarcely populated as possible. This keeps your water cleaner longer. WCs = fluctuation. Pups don't like it. Pufferpunk's fabled line sums it all up in this case. The solution to polution is dilution. Keep the water as clean as you can without changing it.
jeffers;4138828; said:
We test our water everyday...those test kits aren't that expensive and it's well worth it. Even if our pond tests perfect 15 days in a row...it gets tested the 16th day, better to be safe than sorry. Learned the hard way that water can go south in very short amount of time and we don't risk it. We had slight increases in ammonia from time to time, but we rebuilt our system to a tall cylinder full of bio balls instead of a short tub and have had no sign of ammonia since. Our rays are only slightly larger than they were with the last 3 litters and we feed moderately.
Anyway, the pup is starting to slow down from his "cupping" motions, sadly probably just a matter of time now. The other 2 are aggressively eating and acting normal. Really hate loosing our first pup. I guess we can't complain, we've had 4 litters and 10 pups and were fortunate enough to get a batman ray. We have done everything humanly possible to make all our rays as comfortable as possible...it's up to Mother Nature now.
Ok...just when we have accepted what we thought was sure to happen, hubby brings home ghost shrimp, dumps them in and little man jumps on them aggressively eating like a wild man...of course I didn't have the video camera in hand right at that second, but I did get it and will post a new video of him eating. After witnessing this, we aren't sure what to think... I took about 12 videos, burned our dinner and jumped for joy that maybe, just maybe, we aren't at the end of the rope. Of course, what kind of future does this little guy have if it is some sort of nerve damage?? Will post some new videos as soon as I get dinner #2 fixed for the family. Vamptrev, I might need your help again. lol
It's been almost an hour and he is still chasing ghost shrimp around. He has ate at least 5 or 6 and killed several others from knawing on them. He looks completely normal. This pup was on his back today about 2:30....We have been keeping rays for the better part of 8 years and have never saw one come back like this. We aren't counting our chickens yet, but finally have hope after watching this little guy struggle for the last 24 hours. Will post a new video soon.
Went back down there tonight and hes upside down and cupping again. Heck who knows well just have to see what happens.
DB junkie;4138758; said:Not really sure.... I don't do a whole lot of water testing, I'm one of those raykeepers with perfect water I never have ammonia or nitrite. Nitrate? What's that? No thanks never had it....Kidding of course, but not about the fact I don't test.
I can't explain it. All I know is my pups can't deal with it. I personally think it's just spikes associated with regular feedings. I don't feed overly heavy, just have some big rays. Feedings are between 1 and 2 lbs depending on the frequency (everyday, or every other. Ponds around 800 gallons. I push between 150 and 250 gallons of new w)ater through there a DAY via drip system, so obviously spikes aren't caused from WCs. Have 6 rays in there.....
All I know is IF I left my pups on the pond system I doubt I'd have any left after the 1st month. Each time the pup tank has had it's own filter and a pump pushing pond water through.... Both times pups started acting stupid within 3 days to a week of being born.
I think this answers a debate that we are haing on another thread.
You cannot say that you do not have a problem with nitrates and then in the same reply that you do not test, how would you know?
My other point is that I think the reason that pups cannot tolerate your parental system is the nitrate is too much for them but the stronger adults have been in the water for a long time and therefore used to it. You may find that a large adult droppen in to your water could not handle it either due to the sudden change.
I bet if you did do some testing you might be a little surprised.
Just Toby;4140070; said:
This might be DB junkie's issue with his pups, but it isn't the problem with our little guy. We test our water daily. All of our litters are raised in the same water as the parents, they have been in that water for the last 100 days in the womb and in our mind it makes sense to leave them under the same conditions at least for a couple weeks. That being said, if your tank is prone to huge spikes that logic probably goes out the window. Large adults can usually tolerate fluxuation where pups would be more sensitive. Our tank hasn't had a sign of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate since the pups were born. 2 are fine, 1 appears to be struggling, but after last nights events it appears to be more of a nerve issue or something.
Florencebigfish;4140244; said:
Agreed, I was only enquiring out of interest in your case...helps to rule everything out.
I also totally agree with DB Junkie about the maintaining and growing differences and the breeding condition...it would seem that with no matter what fish you want to breed the conditioning through quality food is a massive trigger. Nature is basic but very clever.
