UV...who needs it?

[loconorc]

Since long posts seem to throw everyone off, sorry for the double post....

Heres just what I think as of now on the subject, Ill keep it short and sweet.

I think NO herp REQUIRES it. I do think, however, that it definately doesnt hurt, and it does benefit to varying degrees. But what about what I supposedly does? I think it can be substituted with supplements. But its so impractical that most people just go straight for the bulbs, or even bettere, NATURAL SUNLIGHT, which I beleive should be used whenever possible, for more than just lighting. Stimulation I guess, but thats a whole new arguement in itself. Then there are herps that downright dont need UV or its benefits, ie: snakes, geckos, monitors, etc. (BTW, I have no clue with amphibians....)

So I just wanted to throw that out there when I inevitably join the fray...

 

[davo]

malawi haps, that's just unlucky.

Wonder if we'll be laughing at this thread in 20 years time...
A lot of people used to use that calcium supplement for snakes, the drops you put in water (they are probably still around). Lots of people thought it was a necessity. If you said it was now, you'll find a lot of people telling you it's not- a waste of money and just something else to sell to you. You can't tell the difference between a snake that has it, and a snake that doesn't.
Not disagreeing that certain animals may require/benefit from UV though.

But at the least IMO, if varanio has had X amount of generations of healthy beardies none of which in UV, then I think it would be at the least worth some investigation... I'm sure theres a chance that he has line bred some super-strong lack of UV resiliant super beardies but...

I also wonder when people say there animal does better outside, how much of that is attributed to sunlight, and how much being outside. Maybe having larger enclosures so more exercise space, having fresh air, being stimulated by changing climatic factors and even forced to use their brain if they see a "predator" flying around your back garden. I can tell you something, I look a lot "healthier" if I've been doing working outside for a week, than if i've been inside all week, and I don't attribute that to sunlight. I'm not comparing myself to any reptile, just that I think fresh air benefits a lot of animals.

 

[Jessica Dring]

well sunlight has been proven beneficial to humans, if that helps any davo

 

[Ophiuchus]

I will say that more study is required before anyone can definitively say that NO herp requires UV. Bearded dragons....I'm not gonna say anymore about since I dont' deal with them much. Green iguanas and chameleons?....I'm definitely not convinced. Every cham/iggy that I've seen not kept with UVB looks like crap, suffering from either MBD or some other vitamin-deficient-related illness. But again, maybe with just the right diet and right dosage of calcium supplement, its possible. Apparently, no one's tried it yet with good results...at least not that I know of anyway.

I apologize once again that I simply don't have the space, time, and money to set-up some iguanas of my own to test this theory.

 

[loconorc]

I also wonder when people say there animal does better outside, how much of that is attributed to sunlight, and how much being outside. Maybe having larger enclosures so more exercise space, having fresh air, being stimulated by changing climatic factors and even forced to use their brain if they see a "predator" flying around your back garden. I can tell you something, I look a lot "healthier" if I've been doing working outside for a week, than if i've been inside all week, and I don't attribute that to sunlight. I'm not comparing myself to any reptile, just that I think fresh air benefits a lot of animals.

You can put as many fake backgrounds, plastic plants, and fake rocks as you want, but nothing beats the outdoors.

Its still not even close to where they live in the wild, but its just that something with the bright sunlight, stimulation, fresh air, wind... And the occasional snack that wonders into the enclosure Theres nothing monotonous about it. The lights dont turn on and off the exact same time everyday, you dont get fed at precisely 4:13 every Tuesday... And with a proper outdoor setup, they have so much to do. In a tank, they cant dig a 5 foot burrow every day. In a tank, they cant get 10 feet off the ground whenever they want. In a tank, there are no birds, snakes, lizards, and bugs to eat that are dumb enough to stumble inside.

You can see the fire in their eyes if you know what I mean... And most dont, sadly.

 

[loconorc]

Every cham/iggy that I've seen not kept with UVB looks like crap, suffering from either MBD or some other vitamin-deficient-related illness. But again, maybe with just the right diet and right dosage of calcium supplement, its possible. Apparently, no one's tried it yet with good results...at least not that I know of anyway.

Again, I say that because with proper supplementation, its possible. But its just so tedious and impractical that it seems only zoos bother with that crap. And probably spend so much time and effort doing it that they lose sight of the basics. And is exactly why a zoo rejoices when a beardie hatches and put it all over the news while we see Frank Retes over here with so many eggs he cant even incubate them all.

If you want to avoid it entirely and not even have to touch this discussion, just get a snake, man.

 

[davo]

well sunlight has been proven beneficial to humans, if that helps any davo

If you want to tell me exactly what sunlight there is when I am doing nighttime surveys and how it could benefit me, then fine. I am talking about the benefits of fresh air.
The only real health benefit to humans is stopping SAD which not everyone suffers from.
The production in Vitamin D increase isn't of that much conseqeunce, nor accelerated enough to make it very beneficial to those who eat properly in the first place.

 

[loconorc]

I think she just means in general, Davo. Shes not trying to start another debate. She means well-being of humans. If you keep someone in a dark basement their entire life....

 

[Ophiuchus]

If you want to avoid it entirely and not even have to touch this discussion, just get a snake, man.

You're missing the point again. Yeah, I'm probaby gonna stick to snakes anyway, but suppose I wanted a green iguana. Everything I've read says they need UV (not ancient, obsolete material, but new stuff). Everyone I've talked to says they need UV. Every iguana I've seen kept with no UV is sick. Someone here says that while he's never kept green iguanas, he thinks they don't need UV.

What would you do? Should I get a UV light for my new iguana?

We've already established that its hard to say one way or another since most iguana farms rear their stock outdoors. Whether its sunlight, or fresh air, or both, or something different, that contributes to their success is yet to be determined. So I still don't think you can definitively say green iguanas don't need UV without further research being done.

 

[loconorc]

What exactly are you disagreeing with? I dont see a difference between my point and yours. Maybe one of us is wording it wrong?

Now the sunlight, fresh air, and stimulation. Thats a whole different discussion just waiting for us to start a thread on. How about we go with WHAT WORKS, and from there, you can have peace of mind.