WC jaguar cichlids

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We're talking about two things here:

1) Appropriate labeling of fish for sale / trade in the aquarium hobby, where "wild" is understood to be from the native location (and not an introduced one), and

2) Description of the state of captive bred fish released into native and non-native habitats

While I'd admit that the fish in question are living in the "wild" (2), I think that labeling them as "wild" (1) in the context of aquarium fish is much less appropriate than labeling them as "collected from a feral population in Florida."

What is the motivation to label them for sale as "wild" and not "feral"?

Matt
OP didnt mislable of try to defraud he said wild caught fl jags and thats what he has. Im just a lil tired of the fish keeping community trying to re write the laws of nature everytime they want to.
 
Here's some info on them from the USGS. You can navagate around the site. Interesting info. They are considered A non-indiginous exitic species. They are living and reproducing in the wild so they would be considered wild cought througout there introduced range, however they need to be identified as such by location ie WC Florida parachromis managuenses, Miami Canal. They should never be labeled in a way that suggestes they are WC from their "natural range" that would be misleading and dis-honest. The collection point must be included for breeding purposes to keep the strains pure.

http://nas.er.usgs.gov//queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=445
 
The motivation could just be so that people could get jags that are true piscivorous hunters and not ones that have been eating pellets. You being one who has collected fish in the wild from your statement would know that these jags would probably be more aggresive feeders and have a more predatory profile and hunting equiptment than tank raised pellet feed jags.
 
...and the environments are different...so the two populations have evolved to have different characteristics...

It's a reckless experiment to introduce fish from one population into another in the wild.

Are we really arguing about this?

Matt

The fish would lose characteristics initially but over time they would regain them because the enviorment is what shapes these characteristics.
 
That's what quarantine is for... who knows!

Matt

So quarantine these guys before adding to my community is enough? Would you treat them while in quaratine? How long would you quarantine for and would you do this at higher temps? Do you think itll be hard to get these to eat at this size already?

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...and labeling them "feral" would prevent this how?

Matt

The motivation could just be so that people could get jags that are true piscivorous hunters and not ones that have been eating pellets. You being one who has collected fish in the wild from your statement would know that these jags would probably be more aggresive feeders and have a more predatory profile and hunting equiptment than tank raised pellet feed jags.
 
...and the environments are different...so the two populations have evolved to have different characteristics...

It's a reckless experiment to introduce fish from one population into another in the wild.

Are we really arguing about this?

Matt
Not arguing nor do i agree with releasing fish into different locations. But it happens all the time have friends in ecuador and its a very common practice for all kinds of reasons
 
...and labeling them "feral" would prevent this how?

Matt
First off feral is looked at mostly as a negative term and probably discourage more people than invite, especially those who seek the constant approval from the MFK elite. Wild is a more inviting term and if its the truth why not ?
 
Because "feral" is the more accurate, appropriate label, especially given the confusion that calling them "wild" could cause.

From Wikipedia:

A feral animal (from Latin fera, "a wild beast") is an animal living in the wild but descended from domesticated individuals. When the term is extended to plants it reflects a transition from cultivated to uncultivated or controlled to volunteer status.

As with an introduced species, the introduction of feral animals or plants to non-native regions may disrupt ecosystems and has, in some cases, contributed to extinction of indigenous species. Feral species may however eliminate "problem" species such as rodents, harmful insects, or aggressive plants. Likewise returning lost species to their environment can have beneficial effects, such as bringing damaged ecosystems back into balance.




First off feral is looked at mostly as a negative term and probably discourage more people than invite, especially those who seek the constant approval from the MFK elite. Wild is a more inviting term and if its the truth why not ?
 
Because it's not a hobby truth.

Our hobby uses lots of things incorrectly. The F series is used so incorrectly by the hobby it makes scientists laugh. We don't use the full definition of hybrid correctly either (scientific definition includes same species, different races). "Wild" in the hobby means caught from it's native range. It always has since I've been in the hobby, almost 30 years. Trying to change it now seems rather silly and makes people thing you are trying to cheat them by selling them something other than what they want.

And most of the Florida Canals were man made, so one could argue how 'wild' that is.
 
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