hamato_yoshii;1883034; said:
Thats what I mean. You are arrogant in the sense that you think that you are privileged above us dumb ol' Americans that we couldn't see through propoganda, we just sit back and take it, and go back to pushing people around. You speak as one who is one a pedestal. But, at the same time you also like to try and play both sides of the fence by saying "I'm an American too". It seems like you always lay the foundation at the beginning of your posts to say that you can cover all sides of the argument, but then you don't use that ability (if it's even there) to provide good insight on an issue, you just use it to be condescending and belittling, and then think that you are above rebuke because of the foundation you laid. I think it's weak personally. I respect your opinions, but I do not respect your consistency at deliberately demeaning your opponents, in fact you are starting to sound like the subject of most of your posts.
FYI ... "I am likely arrogant because I am American"... is sarcasm.
The reality is...I am likely arrogant because I am Spankbelly...
That's Mr. Spank Belly
(I kinda plagiarized that from bigjizz or bigspizz or whom ever is THE big and spizzy/jizzy one)
I find it telling that in each instance of this discussion I have offered logical and truthful reasons for my beliefs.
When presented with an opposing view I have taken that view seriously, no matter how valid or ridiculous.
I have given the time to respectfully understand that view, to insure I am not mistaken.
I have analyzed the thought and idea presented.
When I still do not agree, I present logical factual reasons as to why that opinion is in error. I have reported not only that this view is incorrect "just because I say so" as you, and those that agree with you do, but why it is incorrect.
So that you and those who agree with you, have opportunity to adjust any misunderstandings I may have.
And so that you and those who agree with you, have opportunity to reinforce your argument or present another.
I have stated my desire to learn and willingness to be taught.
I have asked to be informed when I am mistaken. So I can know how I am mistaken.
When I have found myself to be mistaken, I have printed an admission of wrong and correction to the best limits of my new understanding.
I have put in the effort to educate myself on areas in which I am ignorant. To better understand the argument put forth by those I am conversing with.
I spend my boring day at work playing "Devils Advocate" during times of mindless menial labor. I debate with myself, against my own position. To find a flaw in my argument. To find a truth in yours.
Not in a desire to insure victory in a debate that can not be won against opponents that take personal offense with truth, logic and the sharing of ideas by simple conversation.
But to better educate myself to the events of the world around me.
To understand the complex relationships of the nations we live in.
In response to this, no thought of substance has been offered by you or those that agree with you.
Your beliefs may be true and just, but you have not yet justified them. You offer no reason or justification for them.
You offer little assistance to permit me to learn, grow and understand the truths of you and your AMERICA!
Instead I have been called childish, when you and those that agree with you are being childish.
I have been labeled as whining, when you and those that agree with you are whining.
I have been called insulting, while you and those that agree with you are insulting me.
I have avoided personal attack and confrontation when possible.
But when necessary to point out idiocy, I have done so.
I have offered unnecessary and unjustified apologies in efforts to keep reasonable peace and the continuance of civilized conversation.
I have gone out of my way in several posts to speak highly of your nation.
With words carefully chosen to acknowledge the pride and dignity your citizens and the citizens of the world(I am one of them)feel for the great United States of America.
To show that I understand this issue is not black and white.
To say that while I am talking about one diseased aspect of your culture, there are many aspects that are good and noble.
I have repeatedly assured you, and those that agree with you, I am not attacking or insulting you specifically.
Not as individual citizens of your country.
And I hope that all understood I at no time intended any affront to any individual member of your armed forces or their families. It is possible to question the motivations of a government and society in total. Without questioning the honor, sacrifice or motivations of individual citizens and soldiers.
I have no doubt that the average U.S. citizen is of good standing and intelligence. Doing the best they can to survive and prosper with dignity in this world that becomes increasingly confusing, depressing and occasionally horrifying.
This is why I am sharing my opinion with you, so you may also educate me on yours.
I entertain the possibility that I am wrong. It is for you all, as citizens and representatives of the United States of America, to educate your Canadian friends and allies.
I have no doubt that the average U.S. solder is of merit, professionalism, humanism, responsibility, pride, honor, bravery, of the highest moral code and absolute loyalty to their country and families and noble founding principles of the United States of America. Even if doubting their faith in the current administration, or not.
I have no doubt that Canada, under threat of invasion or other harm by our mutual enemies or disasters of nature, would request assistance first of the United States of America (and Britain, because of our pacts). And I have no doubt that you would respond without waiting to be asked.
I have repeatedly informed you that I am talking about a cultural phenomenon. A matter of etiquette between nations and the world.
In return for this I receive direct personnel insult and attack without merit.
When you and those that agree with you, feel unable to rebuff allegations of fact and recorded history known to the world you instead whine, insult and in general behave as children do.
This is why "rmorse" assumed I would think he was ignorant and childish.
Because people who behave ignorantly and childishly, usually have always been ignorant and childish. Usually at some point in the past, when they were being ignorant and childish, someone has called attention to this behavior.
If a man wants to be seen as a man, he should stand tall and proud in his beliefs right or wrong and act as a man. No one, regardless of age, would suspect he was a boy hiding in a mans body.
If you Yoshi, or any other, feel I am mistaken then please do tell me.
I want to know.
But tell me how and why.
So that I know.
If I am wrong, then by what evidence or example or life experience do you cite?
Yoshi, you quoted me saying your country has propaganda and some citizens believe it.
You said I was wrong and or arrogant, and that's all.
So I cited evidence of a cultural propaganda that both supports my assertion that it exists, and the greater issue that your nation as a whole is showing signs of unnecessary disrespect to the history and culture of other countries.
And quite frankly, I should use strong emotional language when that is being said.
That is not an attack on you Yoshi. You didn't make the movie.
Your culture did. A culture that supports the creation and funding of false American history. Because while the same movie could be made historically correct, it would not sell in the U.S.A.
A culture that rapes the memory of true heroes dying to save the world from Nazi Reign, (Before U.S.A even got involved to save it's own skin when it became obvious the Germans/Japanese were not going to stop for anything including the ocean. America was heroic. But do not forget and do not lie that America waited until attacked herself, while the world burned) just to sell a few tickets. To fuel Yankee pride.
If another country did that to the honorable memory of your men, women and boys...you guys would be furious.
FURIOUS!
But since it is your culture that has done this to others and does so as a matter of routine, you should be deeply ashamed. And furious still.
Britain and Canada and EVERYONE acknowledges that the U.S.A helped save the world from evil. A big Big HUGE help.
Without you the rest of us might have and most likely would have fallen.
Thank you America.
Sincerely and forever, thank you.
Thanks for your industrial might and all the tanks and planes and bullets and bombs and everything else that drove you to the brink and beyond of bankruptcy.
Thanks for your boys and girls and bodies and buckets of blood that saved us from an endless madness.
Thanks for your bravery and honor and justice and decency that made you get up off your butt when maybe, just maybe, you didn't really have to give a damn.
Maybe they could have stayed home safe and sound till the end of the world.
But they didn't.
We know what you did.
We know what it cost.
We were sitting at the same table.
U.S.A not only helped stop further invasion, but knocked back the enemy all the way to his doorstep. And smacked them hard enough that they stayed there.
Many countries today owe their continued freedom and boring routine everyday lives to you and your heroes. There are tens and hundreds and thousands and millions of free people that live and dream and love because your Knights slew Dragons of Evil.
Even if your government had not become officially involved, I don't doubt free citizens would have paddled a canoe across the ocean and done whatever they could. That's just the way you are.
Because free U.S. citizens did enlist with Canadian British and other Allied forces (just like free Canadians joined the U.S.A in Vietnam) to go fight and die and save the world. They didn't wait for congress.
You guys are The Good Guys.
You really do believe all that stuff about Freedom and Justice and Truth and Equality and Honor and Respect for all.
You are Heroes.
You are our Heroes.
That is why when it is YOU of all the world...denying to us Truth and Justice and Equality and Respect and common Decency...it hurts.
Disgracing others to shine your own star, when your star once shone brightest of all, stabs at the heart of what little good remains in this world.
Most of all, more than us, it insults and questions all the things you claim to be. All the things you were.
And sometimes the world needs that flag to hang onto.
Sometimes in some place's, this world is pain and fear and tyranny.
There are small people with insurmountable obstacles.
Sometimes we need Heroes we can still believe in.
Don't deny it is your cross to bear.
You carved it.
It's yours.
To cast your shadow of Empire upon the Americas and upon the world as others once cast shadows upon you...
Well, shame on you America.
Shame on you.
It took a few hours to write that.
I hope I got it proper.
I hope you understand this is important.
It is not small potatoes.
I do not mean to offend anyone.
But strong passionate language is sometimes needed.
And you guys really need to give your head a shake.
In the past we have seen how quickly lands of prosperity turn to bomb craters and prisons for the masses.
You are not immune.
I have tried to stay true to the spirit of decorum and rules of this forum.
If our conversation should end, so be it.
But I hope the thread remains for a while.
You guys need some time to think.
