What does freedom mean to Americans?
- Thread starter Death Pony
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I misspelled soldier.
B-
I'm going to check out this American Civil War thing.
I thought that was about industry replacing slavery.
That some of America wanted to grant freedom but this was only practical after the industrial revolution hit it's stride and machines became cheaper to run than slaves.
Thanks for the tip.
I may have future questions.
B-
I'm going to check out this American Civil War thing.
I thought that was about industry replacing slavery.
That some of America wanted to grant freedom but this was only practical after the industrial revolution hit it's stride and machines became cheaper to run than slaves.
Thanks for the tip.
I may have future questions.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
"Never has our ability to shield our affairs from prying eyes been at such a low ebb. The availability and use of secure encryption may offer an opportunity to reclaim some portion of the privacy we have lost. Government efforts to control encryption thus may well implicate not only the First Amendment rights of cryptographers intent on pushing the boundaries of their science, but also the constitutional rights of each of us as potential recipients of encryption's bounty."
US Appeals Court Judge
Hmm
freedom means that so long as I harm no one I can live as I wish. Of course there are limitations, and consequences to choices made.
we all have bills etc, there are no free rides.
But in america, I don't have to be married, have children or belong to a church, worry too much about the neighbors stoning me to death for having a friend over. I can drive own property, tell people to bugger off or engage them in conversation as I choose .
Can read whatever I want talk to whoever I want, listen to any kind of music, the list goes on
Limitations on absolute freedom of course exist, most likely to the extent one's actions affect others. OK and zoning laws. I'd like to get some guinea fowl and geese but not sure I could get away with it in my neighborhood
Freedom and safety
well my neighborhood probly isn't the safest to walk around in late at night,
But there is the right to defend oneself.
Erm with regards to how great our country is compared to every other one?
Dunno haven't lived outside of USA. Wouldn't want to
Went to high school at an international school back when. It was in the US but there was quite a bit of US bashing going on....LOL We got busted on by europeans for excessive preocupation with hygene. To many of us they were stinky, that's more cultural choice
Sure seems like a lot of people want to come here though
Regarding the Gov't prying into the lives of private citizens I don't think a big-brother type environment is actually practical in terms of money or manpower
so even the cell phone tracking experiment -who cares
I was somewhat afraid our current leader thought Orwell had written a how-to at one point ....
Benjamin Franklin
"Never has our ability to shield our affairs from prying eyes been at such a low ebb. The availability and use of secure encryption may offer an opportunity to reclaim some portion of the privacy we have lost. Government efforts to control encryption thus may well implicate not only the First Amendment rights of cryptographers intent on pushing the boundaries of their science, but also the constitutional rights of each of us as potential recipients of encryption's bounty."
US Appeals Court Judge
Hmm
freedom means that so long as I harm no one I can live as I wish. Of course there are limitations, and consequences to choices made.
we all have bills etc, there are no free rides.
But in america, I don't have to be married, have children or belong to a church, worry too much about the neighbors stoning me to death for having a friend over. I can drive own property, tell people to bugger off or engage them in conversation as I choose .
Can read whatever I want talk to whoever I want, listen to any kind of music, the list goes on
Limitations on absolute freedom of course exist, most likely to the extent one's actions affect others. OK and zoning laws. I'd like to get some guinea fowl and geese but not sure I could get away with it in my neighborhood
Freedom and safety
well my neighborhood probly isn't the safest to walk around in late at night,
But there is the right to defend oneself.
Erm with regards to how great our country is compared to every other one?
Dunno haven't lived outside of USA. Wouldn't want to
Went to high school at an international school back when. It was in the US but there was quite a bit of US bashing going on....LOL We got busted on by europeans for excessive preocupation with hygene. To many of us they were stinky, that's more cultural choice
Sure seems like a lot of people want to come here though
Regarding the Gov't prying into the lives of private citizens I don't think a big-brother type environment is actually practical in terms of money or manpower
so even the cell phone tracking experiment -who cares
I was somewhat afraid our current leader thought Orwell had written a how-to at one point ....
How to run the U.S. for Dummies is probably all that comprises our current leaders personal library.
Spank here is my problem.
The way our discussion started was pretty heated just because of the fact that there were some misunderstandings, probably on both sides. I was thinking that our discussion/debate had progressed since then, to both sides offering some facts, and opinions to support their side. You may not like to see the word opinion there but, I think that in a debate like this unfortunately a lot of the fuel does rest on opinions and not fact. Anyway, while I was hoping that this thread would continue to progress out of name-calling, and subtle "bringing down" of the other side, it hasn't. I respect your opinions, and admire your tenacity in debate (as I am a debater myself). I appreciate the time you put into these posts (as most don't) and I appreciate your style of debate and logic. However, it bothers me that you continue to soil such well thought out responses with your condescending and demeaning words that are meant either to inflame or bring down, but either way inappropriate. I hope that this may help this situation, but for some reason I doubt it. I am on here debating a lot, and most of the time instead of finding worthy opponents, I just get laughed at because most normal people can't carry on like we do. I fully understand that we are probably the weird one's, and I'm ok with that. But, it sucks when I do come across someone who does enjoy debate, to find out that they do it in the manner you do, because, frankly, it takes the fun out of it. There's nothing wrong with a little joking, but if you think I'm dull enough not to notice what your doing, your wrong. And, unfortunately for this discussion, my patience is wearing thin with trying to put out the flames that you are subtly trying so hard to fan, or maybe pour gas on.
The way our discussion started was pretty heated just because of the fact that there were some misunderstandings, probably on both sides. I was thinking that our discussion/debate had progressed since then, to both sides offering some facts, and opinions to support their side. You may not like to see the word opinion there but, I think that in a debate like this unfortunately a lot of the fuel does rest on opinions and not fact. Anyway, while I was hoping that this thread would continue to progress out of name-calling, and subtle "bringing down" of the other side, it hasn't. I respect your opinions, and admire your tenacity in debate (as I am a debater myself). I appreciate the time you put into these posts (as most don't) and I appreciate your style of debate and logic. However, it bothers me that you continue to soil such well thought out responses with your condescending and demeaning words that are meant either to inflame or bring down, but either way inappropriate. I hope that this may help this situation, but for some reason I doubt it. I am on here debating a lot, and most of the time instead of finding worthy opponents, I just get laughed at because most normal people can't carry on like we do. I fully understand that we are probably the weird one's, and I'm ok with that. But, it sucks when I do come across someone who does enjoy debate, to find out that they do it in the manner you do, because, frankly, it takes the fun out of it. There's nothing wrong with a little joking, but if you think I'm dull enough not to notice what your doing, your wrong. And, unfortunately for this discussion, my patience is wearing thin with trying to put out the flames that you are subtly trying so hard to fan, or maybe pour gas on.
hamato_yoshii;1885936; said:
And that is why I left the debate a long time ago. I stated on this thread that it won't end. There is no point in trying to have a debate here, because he does not acknowledge the points; rather, he belittles both them and the user who posted them.
Slavery was one of many issues that polarized the US at the time but before the propagandists sunk their teeth into it was not so much a morality issue, it was really an issue of wether or not the states could determine individually to outlaw slavery or wether the federal government could impose it. The industrial revolution shifted the ballance of economic/political power northward as the economy became less agriculturally driven. Laws and policies for the nation as a whole became increasingly less relevant to the souths much different way of life. Population shifts from rural areas to urban industrial centers also made southern farmers more dependant on their slave labor.Spankbelly;1884986; said:
Ofcourse the cause of the American Civil War (I know some that still call it the war of northern aggression) is onebof those complex events that can be dissected and debated ad nauseum - like the fall of the Roman Empire.
Whats really cool about this thread is that we are debating the subject and as such demonstrating part of what freedom is all about. In many a country some government good would be tracking us all down right now to smack as potential dissidents.
rmorse;1885992; said:
I'm not going to go as far as to say that he doesn't acknowledge points, I think he does. He does address issues that we bring up and he will research them diligently. It's just that in the delivery of counter-points, he presents things in a way as to belittle his opponents, and it just gets kind of annoying after a while, because I don't know whether I should address his points to our actual argument, or shoot down all of the stereotypes he furthers.
hamato_yoshii;1886653; said:
Same thing in my mind.
I say "does not acknowledge points" because (it seems) he reads them, and instead of attempting to understand what we are saying, he looks for ways to belittle us. He searches out nuances in a way to manipulate what we are saying, so as to make us look arrogant/ignorant.
It just bothered me that I could not say anything without him understanding what I meant. Everything I said would be turned against me, and turned into something that is quite obvious not what I mean.
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