What is F1 Kamfa?

Sourav Saha

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
May 24, 2019
6
0
6
22
Certain articles telling that a F1 kamfa or we can say a Classic kamfa is the result of breeding between Vieja species like Vieja synspilum & Vieja hartwegi. Some articles written that F1 is the result of ZZ flowerhorn & Red head cichlid (Vieja sp.). Please clarify which one is correct?
 

Magnus_Bane

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jan 26, 2020
2,692
2,887
154
27
Canton SD
Technically you could get 2 meanings out of the term. #1 being that this F1 is referencing that it was made by crossing multiple species together to make the start of an original breeding line of kamfas. Or #2 being that somebody got 2 random kamfas and bred them together to create a new breeding line of kamfas.

F1 kamfas = veija&hybrid or kamfa&kamfa
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sourav Saha

Ruturaj

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,790
1,619
179
Seattle, WA
F1 kamfa is zz crossed with vieja or parrot. F1 refer to generation, that is first generation of cross, original parents being F0.

I think 1st part you mentioned author meant that zz crossed with either of two.

Vieja sp is same as vieja synspilum.
 

Red Cichlids

Piranha
MFK Member
Jul 27, 2019
273
358
77
Sacramento
Good points, Ruturaj.

Flowerhorn x vieja = f1 kamfa.
kamfa x kamfa or flowerhorn x kamfa = f2 kamfa
vieja sp means species, since there are a variety of species that can be used.

I've seen people describing flowerhorn x parrots as kamfas, which may be technically correct, but if you compare their offspring with imported kamfa, there is a big difference, and I believe it's because the parrot is adding another big dose of amphilophus blood, so your offspring tend back towards the red devil/ midas/ trimac type vs. the vieja type.
 

Ruturaj

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,790
1,619
179
Seattle, WA
Good points, Ruturaj.

Flowerhorn x vieja = f1 kamfa.
kamfa x kamfa or flowerhorn x kamfa = f2 kamfa
vieja sp means species, since there are a variety of species that can be used.

I've seen people describing flowerhorn x parrots as kamfas, which may be technically correct, but if you compare their offspring with imported kamfa, there is a big difference, and I believe it's because the parrot is adding another big dose of amphilophus blood, so your offspring tend back towards the red devil/ midas/ trimac type vs. the vieja type.
Really depends on what traits parrot pass on. It can be same outcome as using vieja synspilum.

Yes chances of getting more veija traits are better with vieja synspilum.
 

Sourav Saha

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
May 24, 2019
6
0
6
22
Thank you so much for the help guys.
Please correct if any statement is wrong.

ZZ flowerhorn × Vieja sp. = F1 kamfa
ZZ flowerhorn × F1 kamfa = F2 kamfa
ZZ flowerhorn × F2 kamfa = F3 kamfa
F1 kamfa × F1 kamfa = F2 kamfa
F1 kamfa × F2 kamfa = F3 kamfa
F1 kamfa × F3 kamfa = F4 kamfa??
F2 kamfa × F3 kamfa= F4 kamfa??
ZZ flowerhorn × F3 kamfa= F4 kamfa??

If yes then what is the possible fillial generation can be extended by this kind of interbreeding & inbreeding? Means last possible F value?
 

Red Cichlids

Piranha
MFK Member
Jul 27, 2019
273
358
77
Sacramento
Here is a previous thread with more information on the subject.

There is some discussion on the use of F# designation. It is often used to note distance from wild caught fish in pure species. It is also used to document hybrids or crosses between varieties of all sorts of plants and animals.

I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that with flowerhorns, folks were using f1, f2 and so on to refer to crosses between a flowerhorn and a vieja, not necessarily keeping within the same exact family. Here is a link to a FB post with more information, using the term to discuss breeding within a family and not introducing any new genetic material besides the initial mother and father. That is difficult due to the fertility problems with many vieja and parrot crosses.

It's a bit confusing to keep track of because the modern flowerhorns are dozens of generations down from the initial crosses of trimaculatum and parrots, herichthys, and who knows what else. But if you take the crossbred flowerhorn and breed it with a pure vieja or a parrot, the term is f1 kamfa.

I don't know if any breeders of flowerhorns that are working past, say, F4 without adding any new genetic material, and frankly, I don't think I would want one that was that inbred. When you get past even f3, unless you are only working with the original two parents' genetics, I don't see the point of labeling it f4, f5, f6 etc because they've just joined the mishmash of genes that make up the flowerhorn anyway.
 
Last edited:

Red Cichlids

Piranha
MFK Member
Jul 27, 2019
273
358
77
Sacramento
I think I missed the first part of your question. "Certain articles telling that a F1 kamfa or we can say a Classic kamfa is the result of breeding between Vieja species like Vieja synspilum & Vieja hartwegi. "

I've seen this also, but every fish I've ever seen referred to as a kamfa or classic kamfa is a hybrid between a flowerhorn (trimac-based fish) and a vieja or vieja-based fish, so I don't see any reason to believe that kamfas are pure vieja to vieja, even different species of vieja.
 
Last edited:

Super Red Jay

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 11, 2022
8
5
3
40
Good points, Ruturaj.

Flowerhorn x vieja = f1 kamfa.
kamfa x kamfa or flowerhorn x kamfa = f2 kamfa
vieja sp means species, since there are a variety of species that can be used.

I've seen people describing flowerhorn x parrots as kamfas, which may be technically correct, but if you compare their offspring with imported kamfa, there is a big difference, and I believe it's because the parrot is adding another big dose of amphilophus blood, so your offspring tend back towards the red devil/ midas/ trimac type vs. the vieja type.
So my kkp and gb kamfa fries are f1 kamfas? I see pearls on them already
 

Magnus_Bane

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jan 26, 2020
2,692
2,887
154
27
Canton SD
So my kkp and gb kamfa fries are f1 kamfas? I see pearls on them already
F2. Once a kamfa is used as a parent then the offspring are gen 2 kamfa's. Granted since you used another breed besides kamfa as the other parent they will have more in common with a gen 1 then they would with a gen 2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Super Red Jay
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store