Comparing products: ich-X, microbeLift, fritz copper safe

NilusFishFamily

Exodon
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Have you tested your water?
Yes
If yes, what is your ammonia?
0
If yes, what is your nitrite?
0
If yes, what is your nitrate?
<10ppm
If I did not test my water...
...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.
Do you do water changes?
Yes
What percentage of water do you change?
21-30%
How frequently do you change your water?
Every week
If I do not change my water...
...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.
First off thanks to everyone here! We have learned so much in the past 3 years being members!

NEED TO COMPARE:
Ich-X (can order would arrive feb 14)
microbeLift (can order would arrive feb 14-16
fritz copper safe (have)

full details and questions:
looks like Goldie has ich
his buddy the 15” pleco MIGHT have a bacterial infection although we are not sure if that’s just his stress colors or if it’s Columnaris. He’s definitely had it for at least a year so id be surprised if it was an infection. for that reason concentrating on the Ich.

Action: doing immediate 30% water change even though levels are ok. 125 gallon freshwater tank. Only those 2 fish. 74 degrees maintained via 2 heaters. Planted. River rock substrate. Fluval fx6 filter.

treatment- I have Fritz Coppersafe right now. Ordering the others(see above):
differences? Similarities? Warnings?
mixing/what if it’s not working:
is it Ok to mix?
Is it ok to treat the tank with one on one day and then the other the very next day post water change or is that too close together?
if we decide one isnt working do we have to have time in between with nothing before trying something different?
how long in between should we wait in that case?
or is it ok to use a diffeeent one the next day as long as there’s a water change in between?

thanks from our family
 

BIG-G

Goliath Tigerfish
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Is this a test of different medication effectiveness?
I wouldn’t mix medication.
I hardly ever use medication for ich.
All I do is Salt and temperature raised to about 82 to speed up the ich life cycle. Maybe add some extra aeration.
 

BIG-G

Goliath Tigerfish
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This is a direct copy and paste from duanes duanes all credit goes to him:
Tsps are only of use if that exact amount of tsps, brings salinity to at least 3ppt (the salinity it takes to kill emerging ick)if even that 3ppt is 2 tenths less, some ick may not be killed.
I always use the weight method, because it is always correct whatever grain size.
3lbs of salt, is 3lbs of salt no matter grain size, and it takes 3lbs of salt per 100 gallons to assuredly kill ick, by raising salinity to a lethal level of 3ppt.
 

NilusFishFamily

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1) worried about going too high on temp with the Goldfish. what temp would you recommen? note we already struggle w/maintaining appropriate oxygenation levels at 74. As goldfish usually like cooler water (higher oxygen counts)

2) Concerned about the chemicals with the scaleless fish (pleico).
prazipro was recommended on another forum for pleico but the label doesn’t list Ich specifically
seeing posts to 1/2 dose because he’s scaleless
any recommendations here?

3) the life cucle of the parasite supports:
step1
getting them to drop off with
salt (3ppm is higher than recommended dose?)
temp increase (WHAT TEMP FOR GOLDFISH)
step2
and after they start dropping off to do a treatment while they are vulnerable (which chem is SAFEST FOR SCALELESS fish?) i know mechaljne green is toxic for them. I have the copper safe but sounds like that’s a bad move. So Ich-x, prazipro or Microbelift? 1/2 dose or full?



This is a direct copy and paste from duanes duanes all credit goes to him:
Tsps are only of use if that exact amount of tsps, brings salinity to at least 3ppt (the salinity it takes to kill emerging ick)if even that 3ppt is 2 tenths less, some ick may not be killed.
I always use the weight method, because it is always correct whatever grain size.
3lbs of salt, is 3lbs of salt no matter grain size, and it takes 3lbs of salt per 100 gallons to assuredly kill ick, by raising salinity to a lethal level of 3ppt.
 

BIG-G

Goliath Tigerfish
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Dec 12, 2005
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You don’t have to raise the temperature for the salt treatment to work.
The increase in temperature only speeds up the ich life cycle as to hasten the time the parasite is attached to the fish.
The salt doesn’t cause the ich to release that happens naturally in the life cycle.
The salt needs to be present once the ich release so that they may be killed.

If you are weary of the salt treatment.
Of the three treatments you’ve listed I would go with the Ich-X myself
 
Last edited:

BIG-G

Goliath Tigerfish
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Maybe kno4te kno4te can advise on the other treatments
 
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kno4te

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I’d suggest try and stick with one treatment and not mix. This includes salt and heat with meds, which is a no no for me. Chance of resistance if one or both fail. Since you have goldfish I’d suggest meds. Copper is a good choice. You’ll have to get a test kit and monitor your copper levels. Meds should be fine for the pleco and wouldn’t reduce the treatment. Prazipro won’t help for this situation. For the oxygenation I’d make sure there’s a pump that can move water to get it churning and it’ll provide enough O2.
 

NilusFishFamily

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Oh God no. It’s worse than I thought. Signs we missed that we thought were something else. Spending more and more time on the bottom of the tank. Today he’s not eating as much.

my kids can’t handle this. They just lost the family cat to old age. They are both special needs. These 2 fish are my son’s babies- they have to survive. For right now, I really need them to survive. Feeling really helpless.


*Between this thread & old posts there’s so much contradictory information. It’s so hard when you have a sick fish and there are no clear answers.*

we did the following:

  • Water change 25%
  • 2lbs aquarium salt to the 125g.
    • <3ppm recommended above
    • >recommended by other posts
    • >usually recommended dose for scaleless fish [pleco can be sensitive to salt]
Plan to do:
  • scheduled water change tomorrow (25% weekly), but no have no more salt on hand so it will be further diluted.
  • add Ich-X when Amazon delivers tomorrow, and pray.

    No idea how long to treat w/ICH-X for?? early signs it’s working/not working ?? when to switch to something else?? Any other info to help me along here?

Next steps?
  • Bought Fritz coppersafe, prazipro, & thinking of buying meta or something else just to have so I don’t have to wait for Amzn but how do I decide it’s time for another treatment?
  • Debating trying to quarantine him
    • Pros: Could add Aquarium salt to reach 3ppm in a quarantine tank.
    • Wouldn’t have to expose pleco to treatments, pleco=also copper sensitive
    • Cons: only one other tank, 35g w/baby 1-1/2” black moor and snails=risk potential injury w/ichX, copper, etc
Obvs don’t want to expose a baby fish (or snails) to chemicals or salt in the 35g. Impossible to get all the snails but even if I put the moor in the 125g w/pleco & gold to 35g, the moor will be eaten (we tried, his fins were ripped/clearly attacked. [Plan to move him in when he’s bigger]. Pleco is too big to move & would be miserable in the small tank and can’t be alone w/the baby moor anyway so the 35g is out

$$ makes it hard but thinking heater, HOB & a Rubbermaid to quarantine? Size?
OTH: don’t want to damn this poor fish to the cruelty of a strange Rubbermaid bin or other make shift tank if he’s going to die. Better to be spent in his home he loves.

*Btw IF YOU’RE CURIOUS why this seems so hard for me - a few examples of info found scavenging old posts:
  • Many w/cold water fish (admittedly ours is used to it being slightly warmer bc of the shared tank) warn AGAINST INC HEAT at all.
  • Many w/scaleless fish like rays and pleco advise AGAINST SALT in any form/qty
  • Obvs just as many said to use salt & heat
  • Almost every post w/scaleless fish said treat (some say only use 1/2 dose?!) usually with:
    • ich-x
    • Prazipro (label doesn’t say it works for Ich specifically)
    • microbeLift (Pond formula) but while noting the combined chemicals in microbeLift are less toxic than when used singularly, it’s noted it may take longer to work- which for advanced infections may mean the fish will pass before it has a chance to take effect
    • No indication of how long to try each treatment, or when we may see improvement
    • Fritz coppersafe suggested
    • Fritz coppersafe warned against. Multiple posts saying plecos & other scaleless fish killed by copper
I appreciate ANY further insight. Even if it just confuses me further 😂
 

NilusFishFamily

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Nov 7, 2018
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I’d suggest try and stick with one treatment and not mix. This includes salt and heat with meds, which is a no no for me. Chance of resistance if one or both fail. Since you have goldfish I’d suggest meds. Copper is a good choice. You’ll have to get a test kit and monitor your copper levels. Meds should be fine for the pleco and wouldn’t reduce the treatment. Prazipro won’t help for this situation. For the oxygenation I’d make sure there’s a pump that can move water to get it churning and it’ll provide enough O2.
theres a test kit specific to copper? Can you send me a link? What level is safe for scaleless fish?
 

kno4te

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