People need to relax up in here

[DavidW]

I learned a lot keeping and breeding other Amazon fish before my transition to rays. I knew enough to keep them alive and healthy at a time when not much information at all was available about rays and there was no internet forum to ask.
What I am calling 'ultra-newbie' is a beginner who wants to ( rush to) keep rays without even a decent experience keeping other fish alive for a while, and as rays become more popular we are seeing this more often.
Rays are one of the most demanding fish to keep, should anyone get into it without at least a basic idea about their requirements?
If there is an 'elitism' with ray keepers perhaps is it because most are advanced aquarists already before getting into rays?
It is good that people want to learn and come to this forum to ask questions, it is not so good when people want to run before they have learned to walk, and to me it is understandable when some people get irked and want to express their frustration with more words than " READ THE STICKIES"
Perhaps mods could come up with an emoticon that says that?
conversely, don;t you love it when someone says " I have read the stickies and still have a question..." ?

 

[Gshock]

I learned a lot keeping and breeding other Amazon fish before my transition to rays. I knew enough to keep them alive and healthy at a time when not much information at all was available about rays and there was no internet forum to ask.
What I am calling 'ultra-newbie' is a beginner who wants to ( rush to) keep rays without even a decent experience keeping other fish alive for a while, and as rays become more popular we are seeing this more often.
Rays are one of the most demanding fish to keep, should anyone get into it without at least a basic idea about their requirements?
If there is an 'elitism' with ray keepers perhaps is it because most are advanced aquarists already before getting into rays?
It is good that people want to learn and come to this forum to ask questions, it is not so good when people want to run before they have learned to walk, and to me it is understandable when some people get irked and want to express their frustration with more words than " READ THE STICKIES"
Perhaps mods could come up with an emoticon that says that?
conversely, don;t you love it when someone says " I have read the stickies and still have a question..." ?

 

[ShadowStryder]

Don't get me wrong David, I agree. Rays should not be your first foray into
this hobby.

 

[turkeyboy85]

I'll admit, i was one of those fools that believed an lfs that a motoro could survive in a 55 gallon for life. I bought it and I came to this forum, and was told i needed a bigger tank. I was lucky enough to have the means to get a larger tank that could suit it for life. I think part of the problem is that when people see this 4" stingray, they dont believe that it will some day be 24 inches. I understand that it definatly is the "elitest atitude" but in some ways.... it really is, we are all proud of our rays because we all know how much work it actually is to keep them. We try our best to express that to some of the newbies but sometimes its just hard to tell the scamers apart from the people that do need help.

I also LOVE when they state i have read the stickies but i still have questions, those are the people I help right away.

 

[FishDog]

I love to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question if you truly do not know the answer. I definitely agree that if you don't want to help then don't post. I think it is also our responsibility to correct misleading information whether it be from a lfs or another member on this board without someone getting there feelings hurt. Examples: Turkeyboy was told a motoro could live forever in a 55 gallon or my all time favorite of you need a 300 gallon 36" wide tank to house a retic.

 

[Tom]

I feel that Hystrix should be bashed for starting this thread

Yeah! Come on guys!! Where is the love?

 

[fishnoob]

This is the reason I don't post half of my questions. I just pm someone.

 

[cichlaguapote]

I feel that Hystrix should be bashed for starting this thread

Word. LOLZ

just like i dont want to talk to people about how im getting rays this week.. because there going into a 150 gal tank .. all that is, is the start of a GIANT flame war about how stupid i am and how i need a bigger tank .. like i dont know this .. no one wants to chip in some advice on how to keep them.. just tell me over and over what im doing wrong .. so .. i just wont post anything

Should people be keeping Redtail cats, arapaima, Armatus or GATF etc. It isn't up to me to decide/judge but as long as they are made available in the industry then people will.

Agree. This is truely what I hate about MFK now days. And not speaking of the ray forum specifically but other sub forums. Too much checking on other people. People who've never kept a fish or an adult one calling out others. Schooling people as to what a fish needs, or species specifics is fine and actually awesome. There are certain factions here in general that worry way too much about others and what they're keeping in what size tank. Beyond informing said tank won't work long term it gets annoying.

I learned a lot keeping and breeding other Amazon fish before my transition to rays. I knew enough to keep them alive and healthy at a time when not much information at all was available about rays and there was no internet forum to ask.
What I am calling 'ultra-newbie' is a beginner who wants to ( rush to) keep rays without even a decent experience keeping other fish alive for a while, and as rays become more popular we are seeing this more often.
Rays are one of the most demanding fish to keep, should anyone get into it without at least a basic idea about their requirements?
If there is an 'elitism' with ray keepers perhaps is it because most are advanced aquarists already before getting into rays?
It is good that people want to learn and come to this forum to ask questions, it is not so good when people want to run before they have learned to walk, and to me it is understandable when some people get irked and want to express their frustration with more words than " READ THE STICKIES"
Perhaps mods could come up with an emoticon that says that?
conversely, don;t you love it when someone says " I have read the stickies and still have a question..." ?

I understand this as well. For people who know what they're talking about I'm ok with them schooling people. You have some of the best aquarist's in the world on this site. This forum is truely for the elite. Our mantra, our ads, etc all say that. If they are a little rude with you it may be upsetting but you're getting great info and I guarantee the people who know what they're talking about don't reply to every post. Go into your question with modesty and usually even the "elite" will treat you well. Can the elite get out of control? Are there people who generally are crappy with no reason to be? Probably. It happens. But I've seen some ultra rude noobs, who give sarcastic answers, and ask the most basic questions but then come back with a "know it all" attitude after I took an hour out of my time to help. It makes me want to kill them. It goes both ways.

At the end of the day it's a fish forum. Its the internet. You have to have thick skin. And while I think we should be nice to noobs, at least people who are modest noobs and seek/take/thank serious advice. You have to be realistic in your expectations of the internet/the forum/people. The internet in general doesn't pander to idiots.

Lastly there's always the ignore list if you really don't want certain people's input.

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

Its real hard to relax sometimes with new people. After you spend years caring and fighting to keep certain species alive and well care for, and then a new person comes aboard and cares very little or nothing at all for your species. They just have them cause they look cool or what ever.
And then you have people that don't even respect a species evolutionary status. They feel like they are better than 2 million years worth of evolution.

Its hard real hard sometimes.

I have lost my temper a couple of times. There was a post about a guy that accidentally scalded his LM bass 95% to death cause he hooked up the python to the wrong washer hose. And did not notice that he did a 90% WC with straight hot water.

And then there was a person that was using bleach to try and keep any (harmful) bacteria from getting in his 5g tank few a few days until he brought home 15 2" bass and put them in the 5g tank. And they could not figure out why they would die with in minutes.

people like that don't need to have pets period.

stuff like that just gets me.

if its just lack of knowledge thats fine because no one knows everything. And we all started some where. So I try to help anyone thats wants knowledge that I have or if I don't have it ,I try to point them to a person that i think might.

 

[anth.payne]

As has been posted previously, I signed up to MFK a while back now, and never posted once - just read posts - to avoid the slaughter of asking questions. I have only recently started posting, despite some of the attacks from 'experienced' keepers.

Ultimately, there is only so much info you can get from stickies and other sources. Sometimes it helps increase confidence when you are getting answers and opinions from someone who has 'been there, done that, got the t-shirt...'

The unfortunate case is that you will always get people who have ended up in the hobby accidentaly due to poor and incorrect advice, no matter what hobby. This is unavoidable.

This is where it is the responsibility of experienced keepers to educate.