so confused....

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brianjh;1870317; said:
excuse me???? please explain....

water_baby83;1866084; said:
Well, speaking personally as someone who has been in a severely abusive relationship before, I can add a little insight as to the confusion that most who have never been in one face. First off, the relationship never starts bad, it's a gradual process, and one that in some cases is so gradual that it becomes hard to tell when the abuse actually started and how. Abusers are smart, in the sense that they know how to manipulate situations and people, know how to control, and are very good at figuring out a person's weaknesses, and playing off of them. Usually the relationship starts like any good and healthy one would. Firting, spending time together, enjoying each other's company, becomming affectionate, and then usually the "L" bomb is dropped - most often quickly, and by the abuser.
Once they have a firm hold on the victims emotions and have progressed the relationship to the "Serious/Steady" point, that is when the abuse starts taking place. Becomming jealous, accusing, controlling and verbally abusive is where it starts. Next it graduates into breaking the person down emotionally, depleting their self esteem, cutting them off from friends, family, and activities they might have enjoyed. Then in time, it becomes physical, usually with a push, or grabbing them, shaking them, or something of the nature. But abusers are always quick to apologize, and will usually lavish the victim with praise and gifts (a way of making themselves feel better, and assuring the victim). In time though, it gets worse, and slapping, kicking, punching, shoving, and so on becomes a regular occurance. Abusers make the victim feel like it is their fault they are getting abused, like they know what will set the abuser off, so when it happens, blame is placed in the victim for pushing those buttons (even if all they did was answer a question the wrong way). Abuse doesn't stop at mental or physical, but rather, in seriously deranged cases it also becomes sexual, with the abuser raping the victim on a regular basis as their way of maintaining control, and punishing the victim.
To understand an abusers mind you have to understand the roots of it all. 95% of the time, this person was abused as a child, usually by someone close to them, someone they trusted and loved. Growing up, instead of healing from those wounds, they allowed them to poison them, and now project it outwards on victims of their own. They need control in their lives, they like to be the rule makers and the "Gods" of their environment. They cope with their pain by inflicting pain on others, one of those silent "If I have to suffer, so do you" areas.
People who end up in abusive relationships do not go into them knowing the abuse will take place. And usually, by the time that they even realize the situation is bad, it is highly progressed and they have fallen deeply into the trap. By this point they actually may love the person (or at least love who they thought the person was), and they will want to help the person, and make things how they used to be. Usually their self esteem will be shot to hell, and they will be so entwined in the web that they may not even see the situation for what it really is, but rather, cling to what they thought it was, and believe the lies, accept the aplogies, make excuses for the abuser, and do their best to hide the issues from the outside to the majority of on-lookers.

Getting out of a situation like this is not easy, because you are dealing with one - an abuser who will not take kindly to someone trying to control their situation or mess with something they have established, and two - the victim who is caught in a battle between their logical senses and morals, and the manipulation and deception that they have been brainwashed into.
If you try to intervene, you could face either the victim turning on you because they feel like they have to be loyal to their abuser, and that you really "don't understand" the situation. Also because they fear what will happen to them. OR you could face a direct confrontation from the abuser, and possibly put the victim in greater danger because inevitably the victim will be questioned, accused and reprimanded for your interferance.

And if the victim tries to get out of the situation without planning things through, she could face getting the crap beat out of her, or possibly killed depending on the true dangerousness of this individual.
Don't fool yourself into believing that she is happy in the relationship, or that she doesn't know that what is going on is wrong. That's not the case at all. Truth is, she probably knows exactly how horrible and dangerous it is, and that is why she is reaching out to you - because it is all she has the courage to do. The best thing IMO to do in a situation like this, would be to not go in it alone. If her parents havent noticed anything and its been 10 months already, then shame on them, but sitting down and talking to them about it might help her because they, as her parents can "control" her a little better, and provide her with the help you might not be able to give her. Another thing you can do is call the police annonymously and report the abuse. By law they will have to investigate it, and if her parents are aware of the situation beforehand, they can be present when the cops show up to question her.
You don't have to let her know that you are the one initiating all of this, because chances are, at this point, she is probably so lost and confused that she would feel betrayed by you. So if possible, you could ask her parents to refrain from mentioning you had anything to do with it.
This would also allow her the opportunity to continue coming to you to discuss the issues, and still feel like she "had someone on her side", because trust me, once it hits the fan, she is going to be such an emotional wreck, and all that brainwashing her boyfriend spent so much time on it going to rear it's ugly head, and make her defend him, lie, make excuses, etc.

It's easy for the guy to push her around, he already broke her spirit, so breaking her body is his way of ensuring she doesn't get any ideas about leaving him or reporting him. Keeping her in a constant state of fear and confusion is just another way of controlling her, and it seems like it is working. Confronting him alone is not the way to go because even if you did beat him - she is the one who will suffer the consequences, and it could be much worse on her, than what you delivered to him.
It won't be easy to keep it from her, but by involving her parents, and the authorities, that is really the only way you can help her at all, because at this point, she is not able to help herself, and without intervention, the abuse will continue, and could lead to something much worse than a beating....

happy reading
 
xander13;1870437; said:
happy reading

yeh, why would you think that I would have posted without reading the entire thread....I asked you to explain yourself....not quote someone elses post....
waterbabys post describes there experiences first hand...
I stated my opinions, you made a worthless post about my perfect little fairy tale life, you seem to assume a bit too much!!

to some it is more complicated, too me its not....
 
brianjh;1870468; said:
to some it is more complicated, too me its not....

yes and this just shows how you have never gone through anything hard in life and think it's all black and white. you think these people WANT to be in abusive relations? well you can say that they do, but it's only cause they've been brainwashed and manupliated to believe that they need it. these people should be pitied(for lack of a better word. more like, be compassionatly looked upon) and helped, not looked down upon and ditched.
 
That guy sounds dangerous, I'd get help from higher authorities in this situation. It doesn't sound like he's taking his meds on a regular basis, or at all for that matter.
 
brianjh;1870137; said:
stay away from her!!! WHY??? here is a couple......

1) IMHO, I wouldnt want a woman that doesnt have enough willpower/sense to leave a man that physically/mentally abuses her.
Lack of willpower is not the case at all. In fact, women (and men, because it happens to men as well) who are in relationships like this, actually have stronger willpower than your average person. Problem is, it's misguided and usually futile. Initially they stay because they want to help the person. Most of the time they care about the person - because like I said, it doesn't start abusive, it is a gradual process. It's hard for any reasonable person to look at a situation like this and see it objectively, and that's normal, because a person's rationale is only as good as their experiences. So for your "average" person, never having been through a situation like this, it seems to be such a simple fix, when in reality, it is so much more complicated.
If she is still with him now (after he beats her) then she was probably screwed up in the head way before him!!
I could take offense to this if I cared enough. But it's Not true - More often than not, it is because the victim is young, inexperienced, and naive - not screwed up. Though abuse takes place at all ages, the largest demographic is people 15-25 when it comes to romantic relationships. Usually the abuser will play on their emotions, make them feel sorry for them, ask them for help, and threaten to harm themselves if the victim leaves. Not to mention in more serious cases, the victim will suffer beatings if they even talk about leaving. It's a psychological control, and if played right, can be a roller-coaster of pitty, fear, frustration, shame, and denial. Immature minds are not prepared to deal with the onslaught of situations and emotions they experience in these relationships, and to be honest, most grown adults wouldn't either if they ever dealt with it first hand. It's not a stay/leave situation, they basically turn the victim on themselves and fuel the self degeneration.

2) She already is not trustworthy!!! She has a boyfriend,which we all agree that he is a douche for the abuse....but that is not relevant!!! she still has a BF, she is lyeing to him on the phone about another man in her house(YOU)..what makes you think that she wont do this to you???
Well for one, why would she tell him that he was in her house? That's asking for a beating. For another thing, she is reaching out to him, confiding in him, and the reasons are obvious why she is doing it in secrecy. This doesn't make her trash, but rather is a step towards help. In some cases the victims are so broken that they do not have the courage or will to even try for help anymore, at least she is reaching out to someone. She wouldn't be doing this if she didn't want the help, and she knows she cannot do it on her own. Only problem now will be to deal with and steel yourself to the hurricane of mixed emotions she is going to go through when things heat up for her better.

She sounds like a whackjob, take my advice stay away....
Emotional wreck, yes. Psychologically bruised, yes. But whack-job - No. Don't be so quick to judge that which you do not know. A little research on the internet, a chat with a therapist or College Psych professor could greatly help you to understand the complexities in these situations. There is a lot you might discover with a simple search of "Domestic Abuse".

My response in red.
 
water-baby is spot on!!!!!
 
xander13;1870489; said:
yes and this just shows how you have never gone through anything hard in life and think it's all black and white.

If you only knew.....because of my opinion, I have not gone thru anything hard in life??? you are clueless, I could tell you stories that would make you sick...but its not my style to look for sympathy on a forum...:naughty:
 
water_baby83;1870753; said:
My response in red.


That was a very well thought out response, unlike xander13 who just tried to flame.....

As stated in your pos, you have some kind of experience with this topic, and I dont. I wont pretend to know what it feels like.
But just like anything else I am entitled to my personal opinion, and personally speaking I couldnt even imagine myself in that situation, I am a very strong person (emitionally(USMC 6years) and physically), that needs nothing from anybody.
But i guess that you are right, unless I have been thru something like this, I will never understand completely.
 
Personally Ive been in pretty much the same place your at now,I have a short temper so I ended up being pissed and waiting for the guy to come around and taught him its not so good to hit girls,havnt heard from him since and neither has the girl(one of my best friends now)
 
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